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Thread: It's my body, my choice" doesn't count when another life is involved.

  1. #21
    Somewhere else GoaTlOver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    You don't. However, you also don't have the right to relegate a woman to the status of walking incubator, just to suit your sensibilities. A woman has bodily autonomy. You have offered nothing to contradict that fact.
    And you have not offered anything to contradict the fact that the fetus is another person.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    These are two seperate arguemants. To try and link them is specious at best.
    No, their not. The concept is the same. You don't have the right to demand that a person surrender their body just because the life of another "person" may depend on it. That is the very nature of bodily autonomy. A woman does not give up that right, just because she happened to get pregnant.

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    And you have not offered anything to contradict the fact that the fetus is another person.
    The concept of bodily autonomy doesn't require me to. Bodily autonomy dictates that you do not get to demand that a person surrender their body just because the life of another "person" might depend on it. A woman does not abrogate that right just because she happens tio be pregnant.

  4. #24
    Somewhere else GoaTlOver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    The concept of bodily autonomy doesn't require me to. Bodily autonomy dictates that you do not get to demand that a person surrender their body just because the life of another "person" might depend on it. A woman does not abrogate that right just because she happens tio be pregnant.
    I understand your point about bodily autonomy...I just happen to apply it to the new person involved also.

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    I will support anyone's right to a belief in God. But not necessarily that they are God and actually knows when life begins. Don't confuse the potential for life with the actual existence of life.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    I understand your point about bodily autonomy...I just happen to apply it to the new person involved also.

    Then we're back to the kidney, and the dying man. I just apply bodily autonomy to the dying man. Gimme your kidney. You have no choice. You see, it isn't the fetus that is protecting the life of the pregnant woman. Therefore it isn't the fetus that has "bodily autonomy". Bodily autonomy doesn't apply to the "person" in danger; it applies to the person being required to surrender their body for the health of another.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 23rd January 2018 at 09:22 AM.
    Thanks from jacobfitcher

  7. #27
    Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    I understand your position on this, but I cannot get past the fact that that "blob of goo" is actually a person. An innocent one at that. We use words like "fetus" to describe someone who will one day (hopefully) also be a "toddler", or "teenager", or with some luck, a "geriatric". Regardless of what we are calling this person, at whatever stage of life they are in, it is still the same person.

    And congratulations on your two children. It's quite the experience isn't it.
    Before you claim that a few cells are "persons", you must define what the word "person" is. I can assure you, this is much harder than looking it up in Websters, it is a deeply contested subject that the best philosopher could not fully define let alone the layman. Let me give you one simple example of how difficult this is to define. Say future technology allows a decapitated head to be preserved indefinitely. The body is then reused for parts. Which section is the "person"? I think most of us would say the head is the person not the discarded body but in order to say that, you have to accept that the "person" is really the brain not the body. A fetus does not have a fully developed brain, in fact, the brain itself is not fully developed in most people until they are in their 20s yet none of us would say a child is not a person. So you get down to specific characteristics of the brain that cross a line between a blob and a person. We likely all agree that a premature 7 month old baby is a person, is a 6 month or 5 month premature baby a person? Why?

    If you can define that then you need to be part of panels on scientific morality because it is really, really hard to define clearly.
    Last edited by Claudius the God; 8th February 2018 at 07:57 AM.

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