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Thread: Trump Threatens To Cut Off Aid To "Palestinians"

  1. #31
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    @Madeline

    I have respected your pro-Israel bias, but, who the hell are you to deny an entire people their rightful name?

    "Palestinians" in marks?

    They are a nation, they live there, it's their fucking land. Deal with it.
    There is no country named Palestine at this time. There is a section of Israel which is generally understood to be the land that would be designated as Palestine, if ever a two state solution occurs, but no general agreement on its precise boundaries.

    People who live in Israel are Israelis.

    All over the planet, there are portions of many nations who want to secede, such as Castile in Spain. But until that happens and Castillians are the government of Castile, with all the powers and duties of self-government, they remain Spaniards.

    If you feel sympathy for them and want to demonstrate that by calling them Castilians, fine by me.

    But it is not accurate, and furthermore, the Arab Israelis in the main do not want to secede from Israel. I don't know that language suggesting they are not fully legitimate Israeli citizens is welcomed by them.

  2. #32
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    It is a more personal issue for me, than for Madeline. My homeland, Abkhazia, sees its independent existence denied by the Western world just like Palestine, simply because its government is closely allied with Russia. Ignorant Western politicians and Georgians still insist on referring to Abkhazia as a "breakaway Georgian territory" or something. Even though every Abkhazian family has a relative who died in the wars in the 90s to sever those ties with Georgia, and most Abkhazians today would kill and themselves die, before ever submit to Georgian rule again.

    I am sick and tired of this American arrogance.
    I should add here that Abkhazia's government is so closely tied to Russia now, precisely BECAUSE the West insists on isolating her from elsewhere. So, Abkhazia has no choice, but to stay tethered to the Putin regime. Which is slowly absorbing and consuming her. Already, her military is gradually merging with Russian forces stationed in Abkhazia and effectively moving under control of Russian generals. Her police are now under command of a Russian officer from Russia (ethnic Abkhaz, but still). Health care system also being moved under Russian authority. Etc.

    If Abkhazia was welcomed into the world in the 90s, who knows. Could have become a part of EU along with fucking Georgia now... With her world class beach and mountain resorts and wine industry, could prosper now. As it is, only Russian tourists now enjoy those things...

    Same with Palestine. The West insists on going along with Israel to cut them off from everywhere. And then, complains when they resort to violence and "extremism" and make friebds with Iran and such, to fucking survive...
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  3. #33
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    There is no country named Palestine at this time. There is a section of Israel which is generally understood to be the land that would be designated as Palestine, if ever a two state solution occurs, but no general agreement on its precise boundaries.

    People who live in Israel are Israelis.

    All over the planet, there are portions of many nations who want to secede, such as Castile in Spain. But until that happens and Castillians are the government of Castile, with all the powers and duties of self-government, they remain Spaniards.

    If you feel sympathy for them and want to demonstrate that by calling them Castilians, fine by me.

    But it is not accurate, and furthermore, the Arab Israelis in the main do not want to secede from Israel. I don't know that language suggesting they are not fully legitimate Israeli citizens is welcomed by them.
    What do you know about how "Arab Israelis" think?

    You are just repeating the Zionist propaganda, without your own thought.

    Disappointing, really.

    And, no. West Bank and Gaza and Golan are NOT Israel. Whether you or your Jewish friends like it or not, Israel is recognized by the UN as an occupier state. It occupies WB and Golan just as Russia is considered to occupy Crimea.
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  4. #34
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    There is no country named Palestine at this time. There is a section of Israel which is generally understood to be the land that would be designated as Palestine, if ever a two state solution occurs, but no general agreement on its precise boundaries.

    People who live in Israel are Israelis.

    All over the planet, there are portions of many nations who want to secede, such as Castile in Spain. But until that happens and Castillians are the government of Castile, with all the powers and duties of self-government, they remain Spaniards.

    If you feel sympathy for them and want to demonstrate that by calling them Castilians, fine by me.

    But it is not accurate, and furthermore, the Arab Israelis in the main do not want to secede from Israel. I don't know that language suggesting they are not fully legitimate Israeli citizens is welcomed by them.
    Wouldn't it be wonderful if the historic population in the region and the global community believed that bull shit? Wouldn't it be grand if there were no Balfour Declaration or no 20th century declaration of statehood? What does Castilian have to do with this?
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  5. #35
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Wouldn't it be wonderful if the historic population in the region and the global community believed that bull shit? Wouldn't it be grand if there were no Balfour Declaration or no 20th century declaration of statehood? What does Castilian have to do with this?
    Some people in North America also believe this whole place was empty of human life when the first European settlers arrived on their sail ships too...
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  6. #36
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACE View Post
    So rising above threats in order to protect the children is no longer useful? I submit Golda Meirs words

    It is not that you kill our children it is that you force us to kill yours.
    "Using rockets fired on several Israeli towns as a diversion, Hezbollah militants crossed from Lebanon into Israel and ambushed two Israeli Army vehicles, killing three soldiers and capturing two other soldiers. Another five soldiers were killed inside Lebanese territory in a failed rescue attempt."

    That's not a "threat." That's a military incursion with casualties.
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  7. #37
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    ... And, no. West Bank and Gaza and Golan are NOT Israel. Whether you or your Jewish friends like it or not, Israel is recognized by the UN as an occupier state. It occupies WB and Golan just as Russia is considered to occupy Crimea.
    Israel used to occupy the Sinai Peninsula. They relinquished it peacefully to Egypt in 1979. Perhaps the Palestinians should figure out what Egypt did to convince Israel to give up such an enormous (and highly valuable) piece of land. Try a strategy that has already proven successful.
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  8. #38
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Why not just end all foreign aid? It always goes to dictators not the people that need it anyway.

    This would also put Israel at a disadvantage again, so all the anti-semites can be happy that Nazi Trump is no longer favoring Jews.
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  9. #39
    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Why not just end all foreign aid? It always goes to dictators not the people that need it anyway.

    This would also put Israel at a disadvantage again, so all the anti-semites can be happy that Nazi Trump is no longer favoring Jews.
    In order to keep what you got, you have to have allies to help you keep what you got from the really big dogs who want everything you have.

    So you pay tribute to keep your allies stable.

    As the US relinquishes influence around world, China is investing in infrastructure. team China grows.

  10. #40
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    You nailed the issue. In fact as Trump removes support to the UN, countries who voted against the President's move to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and now Palestine we see that Trump is removing the US best interest. China and Russia are indeed gloating and moving in with support for every withdrawal Trump makes including now becoming the leader in the Paris Agreement and gaining all the contracts we used to get. We are so screwed as most don't even realize how much we are being isolated from a much larger world. We can't even gain traction in trade now that he has ended the Asian Pacific trade and China has grabbed it up. We will pay through the nose even in trade now. The dumbass doesn't even know how all these things he is doing comes together for China.
    Bullshit. This is the same nonsense Nixon spouted, and all it accomplished was the deaths of 3 million people and other hideous destruction.

    The U.S. is in no danger of being cast off the world stage as irrelevant. Whatever might be the intentions of Russia or China regarding imperialism, weakening or abandoning Israel does not deter or delay them.

    HITF could it possibly do that?

    I see no value for the U.S. or Israel to belong to the UN, and if the signatory nations to NATO won't eject Turkey, then I see no value to that organization, either.

    We need to trade with Europe, of course, but we do not need to self-injure by promoting Arab terrorism in order to trade.

    You want to worry about America's allies?

    Start by pressuring our government to remove Duterte from the Philippines and aiding those people to install a free, Democratic government.

    Our support for this psychopathic lunatic offends on moral grounds, but if we are selfish, the Phillippinoes have yearned for freedom for centuries now. If China offered them an alliance, they wouldn't think twice.

    How does the U.S. protect our allies, Japan and Australia, without a huge military presence based in the Philippines?

    That "we gotta support this terrorist lunatic because his replacement might be worse" school of foreign policy has fueled some of the worst decisions this country has ever made.

    Let's stop doing that, k?
    Last edited by Madeline; 3rd January 2018 at 10:24 AM.

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