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Thread: North Korea willing to abandon nukes

  1. #1
    New Member reedak's Avatar
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    North Korea willing to abandon nukes

    1. According to https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    (Begin excerpts)
    Kim Jong Un is willing to give up nuclear weapons if the security of his regime is guaranteed, says South Korea, after he reportedly said it was the last wish of his father.

    An envoy from Seoul made the announcement after meeting the North Korean leader, who is also said to be open to "frank" talks with the US...

    "The North made clear its willingness for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula, and made clear that there is no reason to own nuclear (programmes) if military threats towards the North are cleared and the security of its regime is guaranteed," said the South's national security adviser, Chung Eui-yong...

    "Chairman Kim said that even denuclearisation could be among the agenda items for talks between North Korea and the US," a South Korean official told the country's Yonhap news agency.

    Kim Jong Un "made clear that achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish and that it has not been changed at all", according to the official who was speaking anonymously... (End excerpts)

    2. According to an article entitled North Korea: Why it wants nuclear weapons and China can?t stop it

    (Begin excerpts)
    Former leader Kim Jong-il revised the constitution to state that he had “transferred the country into an undefeated country with strong political ideology, a nuclear power state, and invincible military power”. (End excerpts)

    Hence it is an outright lie for Tubby Kim to claim that "achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish". How can Uncle Sam trust Kim's sincerity in denuclearisation?

    3. Summary

    First of all, North Korea's security is easily guaranteed. Just hold an international conference and let all the five nuclear powers and all other countries sign on paper to guarantee its security.

    Does a country need nuclear weapons for its long-term survival? Just look at Vietnam and Taiwan. Do they need nuclear weapons to guarantee their survival against China? Hence it is just a lame excuse for North Korea to claim that it needs nuclear weapons for its long-term survival. Fortunately for North Korea, it is situated in the shadow of the nuclear umbrellas of two giant neighbours otherwise the rogue regime would have been chased out of the Korean Peninsula by US forces long ago. North Korea has successfully exploited the mutual rivalry and distrust between its two giant neighbours not only to maintain its independence but also achieve its nuclear ambitions.

    Secondly, don't rejoice too early over the "major breakthrough and huge news" about North Korea willing to give up its nuclear programme. Don't be mistaken in thinking that North Korea is being checkmated or resigning like a chess player in a truly hopeless position. The North Korean nuclear problem is a tough nut to crack as the rogue state is very elusive in the way that it goes about sanctions evasion. Its latest move is a winning masterstroke like a brilliant queen sacrifice in chess as it helps the rogue regime not only to evade but lift sanctions.

    For the first time since advancing all the way westward from Europe across America to Asia, the descendants of early European settlers encounter a "Red Indian tribe" that is difficult to deal with. If the American natives were as crafty as the North Koreans, the history of America and the world would be entirely different.

    The main problem for America and the international community is the fact that it is absolutely impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state for the following reasons:

    (a) According to Arthur Waldron, a professor of international relations with the University of Pennsylvania in his article entitled It?s time to accept nuclear-armed North Korea, policy experts say | South China Morning Post

    “There’s no such thing as a surgical strike that will take out all of North Korea’s missiles. North Korea is 48,000 square miles – the size of England or Pennsylvania – and everything is underground,” he said, adding that it was also impossible to verify denuclearisation.

    (b) The first reason explains the sudden increase in North Korea's missile tests in 2017. Those tests were often interpreted as provocations or political gestures. In actuality, however, North Korea was racing against time to achieve its nuclear ambitions. After becoming a de facto nuclear power, North Korea is now ready to play hide-and-seek with America. Impossible to verify denuclearisation is equivalent to impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state. North Korea can easily hide a few nuclear weapons somewhere in the mountains or underground, and bring them out to turn the South into "a sea of fire" when necessary.

    Unlike imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, North Korea is not an occupied country. The US cannot deploy occupying forces to comb every nook and cranny of the rogue state for any hidden nuclear weapon.

    (c) After the surrender of Nazi Germany and Japan at the end of World War 2, the US had the authority to disband all the military organisations in the two countries. Uncle Sam could even recruit the scientists of the two countries and brought them to America to help in the development of US rockets and other weapons. North Korea certainly won't let the US to disband all its military organisations. It will continue training and upgrading the skills of its nuclear scientists whose expertise can be fully utilised when the time is ripe for it to breach any agreement or obligation with the US.

    (d) After the lifting of the sanctions, North Korea will have free access to capital and technology to accelerate its nuclear programme.

    (e) Japan was forced to enact a pacifist constitution after surrendering to the US. Postwar Japan formally renounced the sovereign right of belligerency and aimed at an international peace based on justice and order. To accomplish the pacifist aims, Japan vowed not to maintain armed forces with war potential. Can the US force North Korea to enact a pacifist constitution in exchange for the lifting of sanctions?

    P.S. The North Korean nuclear saga shows that a large state often resorts to brute force but a small weak state needs no super weapons but brainpower for survival. Since North Korea can survive with brainpower, why does it need nuclear weapons? History will tell in the future.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3448765/n...clear-weapons/

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-k...-target-south/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._missile_tests

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...tions-timeline

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-they-signify

    https://www.wired.com/story/north-ko...-missile-test/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...e_Constitution

    https://www.loc.gov/law/help/japan-c...n/article9.php
    Last edited by reedak; 8th March 2018 at 11:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Sounds nice but umm.. shouldn't the first step be ending the Korean War and signing a peace treaty?
    As for denuclearization with guarantees of security... yeah, Ukraine signed up for such a deal and they got invaded by Putin.
    Thanks from Friday13

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    I’m very curious what South Korea offered.

    Because the one that would make this shit make sense is the removal of US troops from South Korea.
    Thanks from Friday13

  4. #4
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    1. According to https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    (Begin excerpts)
    Kim Jong Un is willing to give up nuclear weapons if the security of his regime is guaranteed, says South Korea, after he reportedly said it was the last wish of his father.

    An envoy from Seoul made the announcement after meeting the North Korean leader, who is also said to be open to "frank" talks with the US...

    "The North made clear its willingness for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula, and made clear that there is no reason to own nuclear (programmes) if military threats towards the North are cleared and the security of its regime is guaranteed," said the South's national security adviser, Chung Eui-yong...

    "Chairman Kim said that even denuclearisation could be among the agenda items for talks between North Korea and the US," a South Korean official told the country's Yonhap news agency.

    Kim Jong Un "made clear that achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish and that it has not been changed at all", according to the official who was speaking anonymously... (End excerpts)

    2. According to an article entitled North Korea: Why it wants nuclear weapons and China can?t stop it

    (Begin excerpts)
    Former leader Kim Jong-il revised the constitution to state that he had “transferred the country into an undefeated country with strong political ideology, a nuclear power state, and invincible military power”. (End excerpts)

    Hence it is an outright lie for Tubby Kim to claim that "achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish". How can Uncle Sam trust Kim's sincerity in denuclearisation?

    3. Summary

    First of all, North Korea's security is easily guaranteed. Just hold an international conference and let all the five nuclear powers and all other countries sign on paper to guarantee its security.

    Does a country need nuclear weapons for its long-term survival? Just look at Vietnam and Taiwan. Do they need nuclear weapons to guarantee their survival against China? Hence it is just a lame excuse for North Korea to claim that it needs nuclear weapons for its long-term survival. Fortunately for North Korea, it is situated in the shadow of the nuclear umbrellas of two giant neighbours otherwise the rogue regime would have been chased out of the Korean Peninsula by US forces long ago. North Korea has successfully exploited the mutual rivalry and distrust of its two giant neighbours not only to maintain its independence but also achieve its nuclear ambitions.

    Secondly, don't rejoice too early over the "major breakthrough and huge news" about North Korea willing to give up its nuclear programme. Don't be mistaken in thinking that North Korea is being checkmated or resigning like a chess player in a truly hopeless position. The North Korean nuclear problem is a tough nut to crack as the rogue state is very elusive in the way that it goes about sanctions evasion. Its latest move is a winning masterstroke like a brilliant queen sacrifice in chess as it helps the rogue regime not only to evade but lift sanctions.

    For the first time since advancing all the way westward from Europe across America to Asia, the descendants of early European settlers encounter a "Red Indian tribe" that is difficult to deal with. If the American natives were as crafty as the North Koreans, the history of America and the world would be entirely different.

    The main problem for America and the international community is the fact that it is absolutely impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state for the following reasons:

    (a) According to Arthur Waldron, a professor of international relations with the University of Pennsylvania in his article entitled It?s time to accept nuclear-armed North Korea, policy experts say | South China Morning Post

    “There’s no such thing as a surgical strike that will take out all of North Korea’s missiles. North Korea is 48,000 square miles – the size of England or Pennsylvania – and everything is underground,” he said, adding that it was also impossible to verify denuclearisation.

    (b) The first reason explains the sudden increase in North Korea's missile tests in 2017. Those tests were often interpreted as provocations or political gestures. In actuality, however, North Korea was racing against time to achieve its nuclear ambitions. After becoming a de facto nuclear power, North Korea is now ready to play hide-and-seek with America. Impossible to verify denuclearisation is equivalent to impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state. North Korea can easily hide a few nuclear weapons somewhere in the mountains or underground, and bring them out to turn the South into "a sea of fire" when necessary.

    Unlike imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, North Korea is not an occupied country. The US cannot deploy occupying forces to comb every nook and cranny of the rogue state for any hidden nuclear weapon.

    (c) After the surrender of Nazi Germany and Japan at the end of World War 2, the US had the authority to disband all the military organisations in the two countries. Uncle Sam could even recruit the scientists of the two countries and brought them to America to help in the development of US rockets and other weapons. North Korea certainly won't let the US to disband all its military organisations. It will continue training and upgrading the skills of its nuclear scientists whose expertise can be fully utilised when the time is ripe for it to breach any agreement or obligation with the US.

    (d) After the lifting of the sanctions, North Korea will have free access to capital and technology to accelerate its nuclear programme.

    (e) Japan was forced to enact a pacifist constitution after surrendering to the US. Postwar Japan formally renounced the sovereign right of belligerency and aimed at an international peace based on justice and order. To accomplish the pacifist aims, Japan vowed not to maintain armed forces with war potential. Can the US force North Korea to enact a pacifist constitution in exchange for the lifting of sanctions?

    P.S. The North Korean nuclear saga shows that a large state often resorts to brute force but a small weak state needs no super weapons but brainpower for survival. Since North Korea can survive with brainpower, why does it need nuclear weapons? History will tell in the future.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3448765/n...clear-weapons/

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-k...-target-south/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._missile_tests

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...tions-timeline

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-they-signify

    https://www.wired.com/story/north-ko...-missile-test/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...e_Constitution

    https://www.loc.gov/law/help/japan-c...n/article9.php
    Yeah... right.
    Thanks from Friday13

  5. #5
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    1. According to https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world...cid=spartandhp

    (Begin excerpts)
    Kim Jong Un is willing to give up nuclear weapons if the security of his regime is guaranteed, says South Korea, after he reportedly said it was the last wish of his father.

    An envoy from Seoul made the announcement after meeting the North Korean leader, who is also said to be open to "frank" talks with the US...

    "The North made clear its willingness for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula, and made clear that there is no reason to own nuclear (programmes) if military threats towards the North are cleared and the security of its regime is guaranteed," said the South's national security adviser, Chung Eui-yong...

    "Chairman Kim said that even denuclearisation could be among the agenda items for talks between North Korea and the US," a South Korean official told the country's Yonhap news agency.

    Kim Jong Un "made clear that achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish and that it has not been changed at all", according to the official who was speaking anonymously... (End excerpts)

    2. According to an article entitled North Korea: Why it wants nuclear weapons and China can?t stop it

    (Begin excerpts)
    Former leader Kim Jong-il revised the constitution to state that he had “transferred the country into an undefeated country with strong political ideology, a nuclear power state, and invincible military power”. (End excerpts)

    Hence it is an outright lie for Tubby Kim to claim that "achieving denuclearisation is his father's dying wish". How can Uncle Sam trust Kim's sincerity in denuclearisation?

    3. Summary

    First of all, North Korea's security is easily guaranteed. Just hold an international conference and let all the five nuclear powers and all other countries sign on paper to guarantee its security.

    Does a country need nuclear weapons for its long-term survival? Just look at Vietnam and Taiwan. Do they need nuclear weapons to guarantee their survival against China? Hence it is just a lame excuse for North Korea to claim that it needs nuclear weapons for its long-term survival. Fortunately for North Korea, it is situated in the shadow of the nuclear umbrellas of two giant neighbours otherwise the rogue regime would have been chased out of the Korean Peninsula by US forces long ago. North Korea has successfully exploited the mutual rivalry and distrust of its two giant neighbours not only to maintain its independence but also achieve its nuclear ambitions.

    Secondly, don't rejoice too early over the "major breakthrough and huge news" about North Korea willing to give up its nuclear programme. Don't be mistaken in thinking that North Korea is being checkmated or resigning like a chess player in a truly hopeless position. The North Korean nuclear problem is a tough nut to crack as the rogue state is very elusive in the way that it goes about sanctions evasion. Its latest move is a winning masterstroke like a brilliant queen sacrifice in chess as it helps the rogue regime not only to evade but lift sanctions.

    For the first time since advancing all the way westward from Europe across America to Asia, the descendants of early European settlers encounter a "Red Indian tribe" that is difficult to deal with. If the American natives were as crafty as the North Koreans, the history of America and the world would be entirely different.

    The main problem for America and the international community is the fact that it is absolutely impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state for the following reasons:

    (a) According to Arthur Waldron, a professor of international relations with the University of Pennsylvania in his article entitled It?s time to accept nuclear-armed North Korea, policy experts say | South China Morning Post

    “There’s no such thing as a surgical strike that will take out all of North Korea’s missiles. North Korea is 48,000 square miles – the size of England or Pennsylvania – and everything is underground,” he said, adding that it was also impossible to verify denuclearisation.

    (b) The first reason explains the sudden increase in North Korea's missile tests in 2017. Those tests were often interpreted as provocations or political gestures. In actuality, however, North Korea was racing against time to achieve its nuclear ambitions. After becoming a de facto nuclear power, North Korea is now ready to play hide-and-seek with America. Impossible to verify denuclearisation is equivalent to impossible to denuclearise a nuclear state. North Korea can easily hide a few nuclear weapons somewhere in the mountains or underground, and bring them out to turn the South into "a sea of fire" when necessary.

    Unlike imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, North Korea is not an occupied country. The US cannot deploy occupying forces to comb every nook and cranny of the rogue state for any hidden nuclear weapon.

    (c) After the surrender of Nazi Germany and Japan at the end of World War 2, the US had the authority to disband all the military organisations in the two countries. Uncle Sam could even recruit the scientists of the two countries and brought them to America to help in the development of US rockets and other weapons. North Korea certainly won't let the US to disband all its military organisations. It will continue training and upgrading the skills of its nuclear scientists whose expertise can be fully utilised when the time is ripe for it to breach any agreement or obligation with the US.

    (d) After the lifting of the sanctions, North Korea will have free access to capital and technology to accelerate its nuclear programme.

    (e) Japan was forced to enact a pacifist constitution after surrendering to the US. Postwar Japan formally renounced the sovereign right of belligerency and aimed at an international peace based on justice and order. To accomplish the pacifist aims, Japan vowed not to maintain armed forces with war potential. Can the US force North Korea to enact a pacifist constitution in exchange for the lifting of sanctions?

    P.S. The North Korean nuclear saga shows that a large state often resorts to brute force but a small weak state needs no super weapons but brainpower for survival. Since North Korea can survive with brainpower, why does it need nuclear weapons? History will tell in the future.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3448765/n...clear-weapons/

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-k...-target-south/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._missile_tests

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...tions-timeline

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-they-signify

    https://www.wired.com/story/north-ko...-missile-test/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...e_Constitution

    https://www.loc.gov/law/help/japan-c...n/article9.php
    Yeah... right.

  6. #6
    New Member reedak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    Sounds nice but umm.. shouldn't the first step be ending the Korean War and signing a peace treaty?
    A peace treaty can be violated by any side that thinks it can get away with it. Let's take the Treaty of Versailles as an example. It had been violated by Hitler's Germany several times from 1935 to 1938.

    Instead of a bilateral peace treaty, a better alternative, as I have suggested in my post, is to hold an international conference and let the five major nuclear powers and all other countries put their signatures on paper to guarantee the so-called security and survival of North Korea.

    Don't think that North Korea is the weaker of the two treaty parties. If there is any violation of the peace treaty, North Korea will be the first.

    If fact, North Korea does not need any guarantee for its security and survival. All the while, it has been shielded from any US attack by the nuclear umbrellas of China and Russia. Any US attack on North Korea could lead to World War 3 between America and the rogue state's two giant neighbours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    As for denuclearization with guarantees of security... yeah, Ukraine signed up for such a deal and they got invaded by Putin.
    Unfortunately, Ukraine is lying next to the Great Bear's mouth, but far away from any rescue attempt by the Bald Eagle. Hence it is fated to become a tasty morsel for the Great Bear.

    Although the North Korean White Tiger is also lying beside the Great Bear, it is also lying near the Dragon. As I have pointed out in my post, North Korea has successfully exploited the mutual rivalry and distrust between its two giant neighbours not only to maintain its independence but also achieve its nuclear ambitions.

    If North Korea is situated in the Western Hemisphere, the rogue regime would have been perished long ago. Even if the North Korean White Tiger is not torn to pieces by the Bald Eagle, its eyeballs would be pecked out by the terrifying bird.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

    https://www.mapsofworld.com/ukraine/

  7. #7
    New Member reedak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterPill View Post
    Yeah... right.
    Thank you for your "Yeah... right", especially you flatter me by doing it twice. However, it would be much appreciated and beneficial for all readers if you could tell us which parts you think are "Yeah... right".

  8. #8
    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    Thank you for your "Yeah... right", especially you flatter me by doing it twice. However, it would be much appreciated and beneficial for all readers if you could tell us which parts you think are "Yeah... right".
    NK do not have nukes. So I sure they are more than willing to "give up" what they do not have.

    Both Trump and Kim get what they want...attention.

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