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Thread: Christian rehab or slave labor camp?

  1. #21
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I don't doubt that there are people who attended AA meetings and successfully stopped drinking. The unanswerable question is whether they could have or would have stopped drinking without attending AA meetings. I know a few people who have done just that.
    Exactly...

    They might have been there on a compulsory basis, they might have been a longtime member and finally decided to quit.

    There are plenty who are on their 58th trip, they keep relapsing and ending up back in the same court-compulsory program, spending umpteen bucks on fines and fees...

    A simple open container turns into a life struggle, and I don't mean just with booze.

    Anyone who is going to be successful, chances are they are going to have to disassociate themselves anyway, stop going to bars, stop hanging out with other alcoholics...

    They might have been part of the "program," but the determination to quit must always come from within.

    I see AA as also a haven for those of low self-esteem... "experts" you see, finally expert at something, finally able to point the finger at someone else and make themselves bigger by comparison...

    And I'm not saying any of this is absolute, 100% the case in every case... but 9 times out of 10...

    Thx
    Last edited by Thx1138; 10th October 2017 at 12:40 PM.
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  2. #22
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Alcoholics Anonymous has never officially released any recidivism statistics.
    AA does not keep verifiable stats on anything, anyway. I thought law enforcement might, though.
    Thanks from Hollywood and Madeline

  3. #23
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    [AA] doesn't really work... if someone quits it is because they chose to do so, you cannot join some program that is going to make you quit, for the most part, it just doesn't work.
    The problem with alcoholism is that it is a mental problem, not just a physical addiction. Nothing can "make" anyone quit. However, people who have successfully quit can help others with the same problem, because they understand the mental hurdles one must get over in order to quit and stay that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    Next... after sitting there listening to everyone's sob story, many just want to get out of there and go have a beer!
    That happens a lot, too. But it is not all about listening to sob stories, by any means. In fact, the old-timers will tell people like that to quit whining and either get working the program or just go have a drink until they are miserable enough to listen to someone else for a change.
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  4. #24
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    The unanswerable question is whether they could have or would have stopped drinking without attending AA meetings.
    No one knows, of course. But on the whole more alcoholics stop drinking with AA in existence than before AA existed. All we have to do now is stop cranking out more alcoholics.
    Thanks from Hollywood, Friday13 and Madeline

  5. #25
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Courts cannot legally mandate religious-based rehabilitation organizations; including Alcoholics Anonymous.
    Thankfully. AA is not really a rehab programme. It's more a circle jerk of self pity, while telling themselves they have a 'disease'.

  6. #26
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The problem with alcoholism is that it is a mental problem, not just a physical addiction. Nothing can "make" anyone quit. However, people who have successfully quit can help others with the same problem, because they understand the mental hurdles one must get over in order to quit and stay that way.


    That happens a lot, too. But it is not all about listening to sob stories, by any means. In fact, the old-timers will tell people like that to quit whining and either get working the program or just go have a drink until they are miserable enough to listen to someone else for a change.
    And where, if I may ask do you get this info, have you attended?

    Thx

  7. #27
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    They might have been there on a compulsory basis....
    Some AA members even object to compulsory attendance, because AA is there for those who want it, not simply those who (in someone's estimation) "need" it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    Anyone who is going to be successful, chances are they are going to have to disassociate themselves anyway, stop going to bars, stop hanging out with other alcoholics...
    All true, and AA encourages people to, as the pithy saying goes, change their playmates and playpens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    ... the determination to quit must always come from within.
    Of course. If you do not really want to quit, the program cannot help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    I see AA as also a haven for those of low self-esteem... "experts" you see, finally expert at something, finally able to point the finger at someone else and make themselves bigger by comparison...
    There are those who do that, too. They stop the finger-pointing eventually. Or they go drink after all. Or they just stay miserable.
    Thanks from Hollywood and Madeline

  8. #28
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Thankfully. AA is not really a rehab programme. It's more a circle jerk of self pity, while telling themselves they have a 'disease'.
    Depends on the meeting you go to. There are some like that, but on the whole not that many. People who behave like that usually do not get sober.

    And the "official" term (in the AA book) is "illness," not "disease," since the latter suggests an invasive element that simply is not present.
    Thanks from Madeline

  9. #29
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Thankfully. AA is not really a rehab programme. It's more a circle jerk of self pity, while telling themselves they have a 'disease'.
    The "drug rehab" program costs $1,500 up front, lol.

    A friend of mine was caught with some weed, they asked him how often he drank, he said maybe one beer in six months (which I can verify, he was very much the teetotaler)

    But they told him he was an alcoholic and recommended him for the program...

    Thx
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey, Friday13 and Madeline

  10. #30
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    And where, if I may ask do you get this info, have you attended?
    For many years, I did. My father did, too. Both of us got sober. He had about 21-1/2 years when he died. I currently have 28 years sober. I used to be rather involved in AA's local service organizations, and once in a statewide office. I am pretty well versed.

    I even deposed someone on the 12 steps, once, though I have not yet gotten to do so at trial.

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