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Thread: Christian rehab or slave labor camp?

  1. #31
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Depends on the meeting you go to. There are some like that, but on the whole not that many. People who behave like that usually do not get sober.

    And the "official" term (in the AA book) is "illness," not "disease," since the latter suggests an invasive element that simply is not present.
    Obviously it must depend on the chapter. Perhaps Aussies have distorted the message over time and distance. I found the meetings a complete waste of time and almost like a religious event. Luckily, in my country there are free medical programmes available, but one only has 'free' access once. I used that over ten years ago and it worked fine and I've been free of it ever since.

    I actually stood up once and argued the 'disease' contention in a chapter meeting and no-one challenged my usage for they used the term freely. I found this in all the chapters in my town (about 8).

    When I advocated my success with the medical route, I was deliberately and openly silenced by other members. I abandoned AA as a cult.

    Ian, you have a fair idea of how I think. You know AA is not for me.
    Last edited by Blues63; 10th October 2017 at 12:59 PM.

  2. #32
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    Obviously it must. I found the meetings a complete waste of time and almost like a religious event.
    My second sponsor (I had moved halfway around the world) so overstressed his religion that I dumped him & got someone else. The guy ended up getting drunk again, thinking he & Jesus had it under control. (Obviously, that was not the case.) The next guy was not like that at all.

  3. #33
    DEEP STATE CEO Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    My second sponsor (I had moved halfway around the world) so overstressed his religion that I dumped him & got someone else. The guy ended up getting drunk again, thinking he & Jesus had it under control. (Obviously, that was not the case.) The next guy was not like that at all.

    I avoided the 'sponsor' route and tried it myself. I found I was stronger than I thought and with the help of the Hospital, I became free of it more easily than I anticipated.

  4. #34
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    For many years, I did. My father did, too. Both of us got sober. He had about 21-1/2 years when he died. I currently have 28 years sober. I used to be rather involved in AA's local service organizations, and once in a statewide office. I am pretty well versed.

    I even deposed someone on the 12 steps, once, though I have not yet gotten to do so at trial.
    I figured your having a legal career was a pert of it.

    Well, honestly, do you believe AA played a pivotal role in your recovery?

    Without them would you be drinking today?

    I have attended meetings in several different places, once for the court, most other times though just because a friend wanted me to go along with them...

    The one in So. Cal was very large and really nothing got done there, by the time they took attendance it was over.

    Here in WA I did the one in Issaquah, this just with a friend who found himself caught in the circle of joining the program and relapsing and ending up in court again, years of it stemming off one, simple offense, not a DWI.

    He never did quit and has been dead for 5 years, but not alcohol related.

    If it helps someone, more power to them, but I have known a lot of folks who got themselves to AA and very few, can't think of one who quit and credit it to AA...

    In fact, it wasn't until they got away from there that they made any progress.

    But, I'm glad for you and your father.

    Thx
    Thanks from Friday13

  5. #35
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Courts cannot legally mandate religious-based rehabilitation organizations; including Alcoholics Anonymous.
    Well, all I can tell you is that I have been active in AA for close to 32 years now and there is hardly a day that goes by that I do not sign a paper for someone in the drug court system to verify that he/she was at such a meeting at a certain day & time.
    Thanks from Madeline and bajisima

  6. #36
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    That was my first thought. I'm confused.
    The key is usually one is given a choice between jail or such a place. If you have a choice then technically it is NOT mandated.
    Thanks from Friday13

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    And if the defendant challenges it, then it's up to the court to identify a secular alternative. Given that at least six of AA's "twelve steps" require the acknowledgement of a supernatural entity, courts can't mandate "twelve-step" programs.


    https://ffrf.org/legal/item/14012-co...cipation-in-aa
    Consistently and repeatedly the AA "Big Book" says "God, as you understand him." That Higher Power or God can be literally ANYTHING, even just your AA group. It does NOT have to be connected to ANY religion whatsoever. Just so long as you perceive that "thing" to be more powerful than your own personal will.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and bajisima

  8. #38
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Alcoholics Anonymous has never officially released any recidivism statistics.
    We do not keep such records. Such a thing would be literally impossible.
    They would have to exist in order for them to be released, would they not?

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thx1138 View Post
    Two things about AA...

    First, it doesn't really work... if someone quits it is because they chose to do so, you cannot join some program that is going to make you quit, for the most part, it just doesn't work.

    Next... after sitting there listening to everyone's sob story, many just want to get out of there and go have a beer!

    Seriously, it's hard to put something behind you if you keep going back revisiting it, the best way to kick a habit like that is to disassociate yourself from it, not wallow in it.

    My 2 cents.

    Thx
    Like anything else it works for some does not for others.
    I attended my first meeting on Nov. 17th 1985 and i have not drank or used illegal, or abused legal ones, since that date.
    Good enough for me.
    Thanks from Thx1138 and Friday13

  10. #40
    Moderator jacobfitcher's Avatar
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    Then there are people out there who trade their addiction to alcohol for an addiction to AA meetings.
    Thanks from Friday13

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