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Thread: The US constitution

  1. #51
    Senior Member libertariat720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    Anyways?

    Don't have an answer?

    Right, because your interpretation would basically render the entire intention of the 2nd amendment moot.

    Now that is fucking stupid.

  2. #52
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    Don't have an answer?
    Already did. Regulated means to regulate, prepared means to prepare. Entirely different words with different meanings.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    Already did. Regulated means to regulate, prepared means to prepare. Entirely different words with different meanings.
    And your simpleton interpretation is nonsensical in regards to the intention of the 2nd amendment.

    Unless you contest that it's not about protecting the citizens against a tyrannical state? They just wanted militia's and armed citizens for fun?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    When Jefferson was speaking of laws, he was speaking of the laws of the states because there were very few federal laws, and no federal authority to make laws that affected the states or the people of the states. Jefferson and his contemporaries had a very specific and cohesive perspective regarding forcing a meaning from the Constitution that does not exist, and a profound disdain for the use of stare decisis regarding the Constitution when speaking of the federal judiciary.

    This was a theme between Jefferson to Kercheval.

    Also, Jefferson was in France when the Constitution was written, debated, and ratified.
    Jefferson was speaking of the Constitution. Certainly youre not claiming the Constitution applies only to the states.

    "Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right. It may be said, that the succeeding generation exercising, in fact, the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to nineteen years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be, indeed, if every form of government were so perfectly contrived, that the will of the majority could always be obtained, fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves; their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents; and other impediments arise, so as to prove to every practical man, that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal."
    Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789.

    In Jeffersonian terms, the second amendment folks aim to deprive the young people of the 21st century of their natural right to decide the laws they live under by forcing them to live according to the lights of 18th century men.

    Jefferson did write the Declaration of Independence, and was most definitely a founding father.

    When Jefferson writes Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents... he could be speaking about the gun lobby, and its public face, the NRA.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    There is a way to do this spelled out in the Constitution...If there really needs any updates, they would simply pass muster, now wouldn't they?
    Jefferson had this to say about that:

    Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents; and other impediments arise, so as to prove to every practical man, that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    There is a way to do this spelled out in the Constitution...If there really needs any updates, they would simply pass muster, now wouldn't they?
    Yeah, that would be possible in a perfect world where bribery and corruption didnt exist - but then, in a perfect world we wouldnt have gunmen shooting up schools either.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    It is for persons that MAY want to form a militia...to stop tyranny such as the type you support in your argument.
    It was designed for an era that nolonger exists, when slavery was legal, and people brought their own weapons to war.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    Already did. Regulated means to regulate, prepared means to prepare. Entirely different words with different meanings.

    The London Gazette No. 2568/3 in 1690:

    We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.

    Webster 1828 Dictionary:

    REG'ULATED, participle passive Adjusted by rule, method or forms; put in good order.

    Federalist Paper No. 29:

    The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.

    Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 , Saturday, December 13, 1777:

    Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.

    George Washington:

    I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
    Thanks from libertariat720

  9. #59
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Jefferson was speaking of the Constitution. Certainly youre not claiming the Constitution applies only to the states.

    Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789.

    In Jeffersonian terms, the second amendment folks aim to deprive the young people of the 21st century of their natural right to decide the laws they live under by forcing them to live according to the lights of 18th century men.

    Jefferson did write the Declaration of Independence, and was most definitely a founding father.

    When Jefferson writes Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents... he could be speaking about the gun lobby, and its public face, the NRA.
    Jefferson was speaking of constitutions and laws.

    The letter to Madison regarded only debts being passed on to future generations, not amending the Constitution. Another theme in the letter is the relationship between usufruct and various common laws.

    It is true that Jefferson came across as more liberal regarding amendments, but he was a Founder, not Drafter or Ratifier. He was also a very strong proponent of originalism.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    It was designed for an era that nolonger exists, when slavery was legal, and people brought their own weapons to war.
    That era still exists in this world.

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