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  1. #11
    Ignorance Is Virtue BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    We in Britain are experiencing the horror of the government quietly changing the citizenship rules last year to exclude people who came from the commonwealth as children, brought by their parents who had the right to British citizenship, to help in the rebuilding after WW2. The government has just admitted deporting some of them!
    These are people who grew up in Britain, worked and paid taxes, and are now being denied benefits, healthcare, and even housing because their immigration status was never regularised.
    I'd like to mention it is heartening to see such behavior spreading to other countries, that American xenophobia is not so unique, but I'd be lying.

  2. #12
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Laws that tend to deprive us from our humanity shouldn't be followed.
    And you are the arbitror of that?

  3. #13
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Pretending that the nation is a "private residence" and that people who come here almost exclusively looking for work are equivalent to murderers and bank robbers is fanatically alarmist. Americans do not "own" jobs that we haven't been hired to do. Frankly, we don't even "own" the nation itself.

    What right do I have to tell someone they can't be in a public park, or live with a cousin, or rent an apartment? What right do I have to tell someone he can't work somewhere and get paid? Yes, there is immigration law, but to me it seems more like me saying that someone can't drive a car because his driver's license is expired. Yeah, it's true that he can't legally drive, but it isn't like he is stealing something from me, or harming me.

    It's nothing like murder or theft.
    Then change the laws or vote for people who will.

  4. #14
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Then change the laws or vote for people who will.
    I've tried to do the first (insofar as one person can) and done the second. Other than that, I'll just ignore the laws, and help them whenever possible, because unlike you, I do have sympathy for the majority of people who decide to cross over an imaginary line to earn more money.

  5. #15
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I've tried to do the first (insofar as one person can) and done the second. Other than that, I'll just ignore the laws, and help them whenever possible, because unlike you, I do have sympathy for the majority of people who decide to cross over an imaginary line to earn more money.
    So, you're in favor of open borders?

  6. #16
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    So, you're in favor of open borders?
    I'm in favor of a free market, if we're really going to have one. If companies can go to Mexico to get cheaper priced labor, then laborers can come to the US to get a better price for their labor.

    I'm not saying that a free market is necessarily the best way forward, but if it's going to be a free market, let's quit lying and pretending that it already is or that we are anywhere close to it, and go ahead and have one. If we are going to acknowledge that it's not a free market and that no one really wants that, that might be better, and then we can discuss what kind of restrictions we want.
    Thanks from Paris and Friday13

  7. #17
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I'm in favor of a free market, if we're really going to have one. If companies can go to Mexico to get cheaper priced labor, then laborers can come to the US to get a better price for their labor.

    I'm not saying that a free market is necessarily the best way forward, but if it's going to be a free market, let's quit lying and pretending that it already is or that we are anywhere close to it, and go ahead and have one. If we are going to acknowledge that it's not a free market and that no one really wants that, that might be better, and then we can discuss what kind of restrictions we want.
    I have never done that. I have always been in favor of strong but intelligent regulation.

  8. #18
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    I have never done that. I have always been in favor of strong but intelligent regulation.
    I never meant to imply that you did. I just meant that I believe that if rich people can go wherever they want to make more money, then poor people should be able to as well.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and Paris

  9. #19
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I never meant to imply that you did. I just meant that I believe that if rich people can go wherever they want to make more money, then poor people should be able to as well.
    Sounds like you are in favor of open borders.

  10. #20
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Sounds like you are in favor of open borders.
    Perhaps oversimplified, but for the most part, yes. Certainly for equal rights for all people regardless of income or accident of birth.
    Thanks from Paris

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