Thread: Stupidity of guns and hunting

Gun lovers usually make the claim that they need their guns to fend off bairs and foxes and wolves blah blah. They see this as a necessary tool for their 'way of life', which is one served out in a mountian or something. They use this reason to justify gun ownership but as far as I can see this is a really stupid argument. People say 'oh well taking down a grizzly is way too hard without a gun and you're likely to be ripped literally apart'. But the logic is baffling. The thing about these hunting dudes is they actually seek out these animals.

They live in mountains and wherever else, which is also the homes of bears and wolves etc and then say they need to protect themselves. But as can be seen - they are not 'protecting' - they are intruding! They are invading the inhabitants' environment and then killing any that get angry or even simply come across any of these douche bags' path. They have a choice - they can simply live somewhere else. But instead they choose to live in the wilderness and kill animals with which they use as justification for gun ownership. If they didn't have guns they wouldn't be so "oh I'm top shit coz I live in a forest".

There is nothing good about guns, etc for perhaps one or two activities, but they are easily replaced in those situations with non-lethal weapons - like air-soft pistols. Thus -

1. Hunting and "survival" is not an argument for gun ownership.

2. Guns are redundant as a necessary or good tool in the world.

Now guns for Feral pigs, dogs, rabbits and cats (the cats are NOT the nice "pretty Kitty" kind) I can fully agree with. That lot have DECIMATED our wildlife here in Australia

Duuuuuuuuuuude. Quit bogartin' that joint, eh? Now, tell me why you really want to repeal the Second Amendment. Then, if the lid isn't finished yet, will you do the same for the First and the rest?

The main reason we have guns isn't to kill Bambi and Thumper. It's as Thomas Jefferson so wisely stated:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Several other related quotes:

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficient... The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding."
-- Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
-- Barry Goldwater

"I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, short swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other types of arms. The possession of unnecessary implements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to foment uprisings.
-- Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Shogun, August 1588

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
-- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."
-- Constitutional scholar Joseph Story, 1840

"The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation in politics as a responsible moral being..."
-- J.G.A. Pocock, describing the beliefs of the founders of the U.S.

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.
-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.

Originally Posted by Metallica Fan!

Gun lovers usually make the claim that they need their guns to fend off bairs and foxes and wolves blah blah. They see this as a necessary tool for their 'way of life', which is one served out in a mountian or something. They use this reason to justify gun ownership but as far as I can see this is a really stupid argument. People say 'oh well taking down a grizzly is way too hard without a gun and you're likely to be ripped literally apart'. But the logic is baffling. The thing about these hunting dudes is they actually seek out these animals.

They live in mountains and wherever else, which is also the homes of bears and wolves etc and then say they need to protect themselves. But as can be seen - they are not 'protecting' - they are intruding! They are invading the inhabitants' environment and then killing any that get angry or even simply come across any of these douche bags' path. They have a choice - they can simply live somewhere else. But instead they choose to live in the wilderness and kill animals with which they use as justification for gun ownership. If they didn't have guns they wouldn't be so "oh I'm top shit coz I live in a forest".

There is nothing good about guns, etc for perhaps one or two activities, but they are easily replaced in those situations with non-lethal weapons - like air-soft pistols. Thus -

1. Hunting and "survival" is not an argument for gun ownership.

2. Guns are redundant as a necessary or good tool in the world.

My friend, let me be the first to congratulate you. This has got to be the most blatant straw-man post I've ever seen.

You're so-called listed reason for gun owners to want guns, and your reason for deciding they should be banned, is about as disingenuous as I've seen on here in quite a while.

I read it and was afraid to even comment...it wouldn't have been pretty. LOL.

Spoiler

I keep guns to protect myself from the wackos out there.

Originally Posted by Divine Wind

Duuuuuuuuuuude. Quit bogartin' that joint, eh? Now, tell me why you really want to repeal the Second Amendment. Then, if the lid isn't finished yet, will you do the same for the First and the rest?

The main reason we have guns isn't to kill Bambi and Thumper. It's as Thomas Jefferson so wisely stated:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Several other related quotes:

Of all the silly reasons for open gun ownership I consider the "second amendment" to be about the fifth silliest. The whole idea of needing a gun to "protect freedom" is just not supported by the reality of democracy - you would be better off keeping a loaded pen

Originally Posted by bowerbird

Of all the silly reasons for open gun ownership I consider the "second amendment" to be about the fifth silliest. The whole idea of needing a gun to "protect freedom" is just not supported by the reality of democracy - you would be better off keeping a loaded pen

Are you saying King George would have granted us our independence if we'd only wrote him a really strong letter?

Originally Posted by Divine Wind

Are you saying King George would have granted us our independence if we'd only wrote him a really strong letter?

King George had other issues - mostly finding out what happened to his marbles, but who knows - a conflict of the sort that England tried in America was never going to be very successful - the supply lines were too long.

It would have taken longer but I have no doubt you would have ended with a peaceful solution - look at Canada, Australia and even India

Originally Posted by bowerbird

Of all the silly reasons for open gun ownership I consider the "second amendment" to be about the fifth silliest. The whole idea of needing a gun to "protect freedom" is just not supported by the reality of democracy - you would be better off keeping a loaded pen

You need to tell that to the Czechs, and to those countries Hitler took quickly disarming their citizens. You live in a fantasy world.

Actually, I was kidding. Our forefathers tried the letter bit. It didn't work. We tried other things for years before the idea of revolution came to the forefront.

As for you conjecture about America ending up like Canada, Australia and India, have you ever considered that without the American Revolution history would have been different in your country? It's like saying the Reformation would have occurred even if Martin Luther had never nailed his 95 Theses to the front door of a church or Australia would have never been invaded by the Japanese even if they had never bombed Pearl Harbor.