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Thread: A plausible theory of mind-boggling collusion: Russia

  1. #1
    Wawa Skittletits BDBoop's Avatar
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    A plausible theory of mind-boggling collusion: Russia

    Before I begin, I will state two things. When I saw the title, I thought i would be putting this thread in Conspiracy Theories. Then I read the entire article, which was inclusive of this:

    A case like this presents an easy temptation for conspiracy theorists, but we can responsibly speculate as to what lies at the end of this scandal without falling prey to their fallacies. Conspiracy theories tend to attract people far from the corridors of power, and they often hypothesize vast connections within or between governments and especially intelligence agencies. One of the oddities of the Russia scandal is that many of the most exotic and sinister theories have come from people within government and especially within the intelligence field.
    Secondly, I watch TRMS every night, and she routinely delves deeply into the connections between Russia and the Trump campaign - and most of this article was news to me.

    Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler? | New York Magazine

    The first diagram is a veritable "holy shit" of what I've stated repeatedly all over this board, which is the 'one degree of separation' between Trump and the people who have been indicted, pleaded guilty, are currently in jail, etc. Far too many to be scoffed at and/or dismissed.

    The article goes back to 1987 and it was all fascinating reading, but what hit me hardest was the following:

    Trump barely puts much effort into predicting a clean bill of health anymore. He acts like a man with a great deal to hide: declining to testify, dangling pardons to keep witnesses from incriminating him, publicly chastising his attorney general for not quashing the whole investigation, and endorsing Russia’s preposterous claims that it had nothing to do with the election at all. (“Russia continues to say they had nothing to do with Meddling in our Election!” he tweeted last month, contradicting the conclusion of every U.S. intelligence agency.) Trump’s behavior toward Russia looks nothing like that of a leader of a country it attacked and exactly like that of an accessory after the fact.

    “After” could be optimistic. The logic of Russia’s role in helping Trump has not changed since the election. If Trump’s campaign hired hackers to penetrate his opponent’s communications or voting machines, they would risk arrest. But Putin can hire hackers with impunity. Mueller can indict Russians, and he has, but he can’t arrest them unless they decide to leave Russia. Outsourcing Trump’s hacking work to Putin made perfect sense for both men in 2016, and still does.


    And if you’re Putin, embarking upon a coveted summit with the most Russophilic president since World War II, who is taking a crowbar to the alliance of your enemies, why wouldn’t you help him in 2018 and 2020? Ever since the fall of 2016, when Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell privately turned down an Obama-administration proposal for a bipartisan warning to Russia not to interfere in the election, the underlying dynamic has been set: Most Republicans would rather win an election with Putin’s help than lose one without it. The Democrats, brimming with rage, threaten to investigate Russian activity if they win a chamber of Congress this November. For Putin to redouble his attack — by hacking into voting machines or some other method — would be both strategic and in keeping with his personality. Why stop now?
    And to think I might not have seen this article at all, were I not following Mr. Mark Hamill.

  2. #2
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    I find this particularly interesting and cannot for the life of me figure out how his supporters just dismiss it all.

    Spending lavishly and deep in debt, Manafort went underground in 2014. Deripaska, seeking to recover funds he believed Manafort owed him, went to court, where one of his lawyers stated, “It appears that Paul Manafort and Rick Gates” — Manafort’s longtime associate — “have simply disappeared.” Two years later, Manafort resurfaced as Trump’s campaign manager, with Gates as his deputy, and set out to use his position to regain favor with his estranged patron. In leaked emails to Kilimnik, Manafort referred to his new standing and asked, “How do we use to get whole?” Kilimnik assured Manafort, “We will get back to the original relationship.” That is, Manafort was asking about, and Kilimnik was confirming, the possibility of trading his position as Trump’s campaign manager for debt forgiveness from Deripaska.

    This much was clear in March 2016: The person who managed the campaign of a pro-Russian candidate in Ukraine was now also managing the campaign of a pro-Russian candidate in the United States. And Trump’s campaign certainly looked like the same play Putin had run many times before: Trump inflamed internal ethnic division, assailed the corruption of the elite, attacked Western allies while calling for cooperation with Russia, and sowed distrust in the fairness of the vote count. And in addition to deploying social-media bots and trolls, Russia apparently spent directly to help elect Trump. The FBI is investigating Alexander Torshin, a Russian banker who built ties to Republicans and allegedly funneled campaign funds to the National Rifle Association, which spent three times as much to help Trump as it had on behalf of Romney four years earlier.

    Trump surrounded himself with several staffers, in addition to Manafort, with unusually close ties to Russia. His national-security adviser, Michael Flynn, had traveled to Moscow in 2015 to fête Putin at a banquet; George Papadopoulos met with Russian officials during the campaign; Russia had marked Carter Page as a possible asset. Michael Cohen and Felix Sater, the two business associates of Trump’s with decades-long ties to Russian organized crime, engaged in a mix of diplomatic and commercial negotiations with Russia during the campaign.

    Several Trump advisers knew Russia was working to help Trump. Papadopoulos let it slip that Russia had dirt on Clinton; Roger Stone, a former longtime business partner of Manafort’s who communicated regularly with Trump throughout the campaign, knew what material WikiLeaks had obtained, according to two associates. Stone also repeatedly boasted of his back-channel contacts to Julian Assange and flaunted advance knowledge of what dirt Assange had. Between a pair of phone conversations Donald Jr. had to set up his Trump Tower meeting, he spoke with someone with a blocked phone number. (His father has a blocked phone number.) John K. Mashburn, a former campaign and current White House staffer, testified in March that he recalled receiving an email in early 2016 that Russia had negative information on Clinton.
    But Trump supporters insist there's nothing to see. Unfuckingbelievable.

  3. #3
    Wawa Skittletits BDBoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I find this particularly interesting and cannot for the life of me figure out how his supporters just dismiss it all.



    But Trump supporters insist there's nothing to see. Unfuckingbelievable.
    I would love for any of the naysayers to read this article word-for-word and still hold onto their ostrich patch.
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    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    What really makes me go "hmmm" is that supposedly, Paul Manafort has pretty deep connections with Bob Dole and even ran his campaign back in the 1990s. Dole reportedly told Trump he needed to get him to aid his campaign back in 2015. So did Dole have some dark connections? Has the Russians had more interventions than we know? Did more politicians have Manaforts/Russian help? Manafort had a lot of political connections.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...e82021592.html
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    Wawa Skittletits BDBoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    What really makes me go "hmmm" is that supposedly, Paul Manafort has pretty deep connections with Bob Dole and even ran his campaign back in the 1990s. Dole reportedly told Trump he needed to get him to aid his campaign back in 2015. So did Dole have some dark connections? Has the Russians had more interventions than we know? Did more politicians have Manaforts/Russian help? Manafort had a lot of political connections.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...e82021592.html
    Thank you. This is what happens when people (not you) stop marching in lockstep and start investigating.
    Thanks from bajisima

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    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that Trump is working with and for the Russians. And I can't believe he's being allowed to meet with Putin alone. There is not even going to be an English translator there. WTF?!
    Thanks from the watchman, BoiseBo and labrea

  7. #7
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    What really makes me go "hmmm" is that supposedly, Paul Manafort has pretty deep connections with Bob Dole and even ran his campaign back in the 1990s. Dole reportedly told Trump he needed to get him to aid his campaign back in 2015. So did Dole have some dark connections? Has the Russians had more interventions than we know? Did more politicians have Manaforts/Russian help? Manafort had a lot of political connections.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...e82021592.html
    Oh, I have also pretty well concluded that the Republican party itself has nefarious connections to Russia. Don't forget about the NRA.
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Thank you. This is what happens when people (not you) stop marching in lockstep and start investigating.
    I had known about Manafort years ago when some speculated he had something to do with that polonium poisoning in the Russian/Ukrainian elections. I thought it was odd Dole had been so close with him and shocked when Trump hired him. Actually found it odd democrats and the other GOP contenders didnt bring up that issue since Manafort was in the hot seat over that. He even lived in Russia for years and nobody said anything. That struck me as strange. Then of course his "relationship" with Roger Stone. Thats a weird combo platter to say the least. Stone of course was assuring everyone the GOP would win both the House and the Senate in 2016 even though polling didnt show that. Pretty lucky guess.
    Thanks from Babba, Panzareta and labrea

  9. #9
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that Trump is working with and for the Russians. And I can't believe he's being allowed to meet with Putin alone. There is not even going to be an English translator there. WTF?!
    That could either be two things, one he is an evil genius, or he isnt bright. Trump could be a pawn in all of this. He wanted to be president (or at least didnt want to lose) and didnt care how that happened. He was well known to just tell people to get something done, he never asked how.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Oh, I have also pretty well concluded that the Republican party itself has nefarious connections to Russia. Don't forget about the NRA.
    What I wonder is there are conspiracy sites out there that also peg Comey and Mueller to past Russian connections. Nothing so evil but aligning them with GOP fundraising efforts and such within the GW Bush presidency. One report even goes so far to say GW was closely aligned to Russia and was instrumental in getting some republicans funds and such for campaigns. Really worked hard during the Obama years spreading disinformation. I guess we will see what Mueller says since I am leery of some of these theories but it seems plausible after seeing Comey.

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