Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57
Thanks Tree28Thanks

Thread: Keystone Pipeline

  1. #1
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,464
    Thanks
    16522

    From
    USA

    Keystone Pipeline

    Just for a different take on the Keystone Pipeline and Congressional lack of power in allowing the pipeline: Presidents hold the power of approval for any pipeline crossing US borders, not Congress. It is called a "Presidential Permit" which is under the executive branch alone. Do you think that President Obama will cede Presidential power to Congress? Keep in mind Congress already tried to force a decision by issuing a 60-day deadline. Well that didn't work out well for them.

    Truthfully the best thing about these games they play is how much we learn about our own system.

  2. #2
    B04
    B04 is offline
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    15,199
    Thanks
    6274

    From
    gone
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Just for a different take on the Keystone Pipeline and Congressional lack of power in allowing the pipeline: Presidents hold the power of approval for any pipeline crossing US borders, not Congress. It is called a "Presidential Permit" which is under the executive branch alone. Do you think that President Obama will cede Presidential power to Congress? Keep in mind Congress already tried to force a decision by issuing a 60-day deadline. Well that didn't work out well for them.

    Truthfully the best thing about these games they play is how much we learn about our own system.
    (sigh)

    You really need to research prior to posting.


    Presidential Permits, under Executive order 11423... text from Executive Order 11423 states...
    Executive Order 11423 of August 16, 1968
    Section 1. (a) Except with respect to facilities covered by Executive Orders No. 10485 and No. 10530, the Secretary of State is hereby designated and empowered to receive all applications for permits for the construction, connection, operation, or maintenance, at the borders of the United States, of: (i) pipelines, conveyor belts, and similar facilities for the exportation or importation of petroleum, petroleum products, coal, minerals, or other products to or from a foreign country; (ii) facilities for the exportation or importation of water or sewage to or from a foreign country; (iii) monorails, aerial cable cars, aerial tramways and similar facilities for the transportation of persons or things, or both, to or from a foreign country; and (iv) bridges, to the extent that congressional authorization is not required.
    The operative part is in bold. What that means, is that up until Congressional Authorization is required, the President can 'receive all applications for permits'. It does NOT mean congress is out of the loop, and the President can bypass them in the Keystone XL process.

  3. #3
    B04
    B04 is offline
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    15,199
    Thanks
    6274

    From
    gone
    Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution authorizes Congress to ‘regulate Commerce with foreign Nations.’

    Presidential authority in matters of foreign commerce comes from the President's more general foreign affairs authority.

    Which do you think would stand up to a Constitutional challenge?

  4. #4
    Banned Camp
    Joined
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,029
    Thanks
    720

    From
    At Home
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Presidents hold the power of approval for any pipeline crossing US borders, not Congress. It is called a "Presidential Permit" which is under the executive branch alone.
    No, the president does not hold that power.

    Perhaps you should take BO4's advice before you start another ignorant thread like this one.

    Thread FAIL!

  5. #5
    B04
    B04 is offline
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    15,199
    Thanks
    6274

    From
    gone
    Quote Originally Posted by BodyDouble View Post
    No, the president does not hold that power.

    Perhaps you should take BO4's advice before you start another ignorant thread like this one.

    Thread FAIL!
    The problem is, the President's authority on the permit process comes from... the President, via Executive Order. It's never been tested in court.

    It would fail.

  6. #6
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    36,802
    Thanks
    34335

    From
    United States
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Just for a different take on the Keystone Pipeline and Congressional lack of power in allowing the pipeline: Presidents hold the power of approval for any pipeline crossing US borders, not Congress. It is called a "Presidential Permit" which is under the executive branch alone. Do you think that President Obama will cede Presidential power to Congress? Keep in mind Congress already tried to force a decision by issuing a 60-day deadline. Well that didn't work out well for them.

    Truthfully the best thing about these games they play is how much we learn about our own system.

    It's likely that the pipeline construction will get underway in due time if nothing is done by Congress. That is an important detail that many in the general public don't seem to understand.

    Congress doesn't need to act at all. What they are proposing is a fast-track process that bypasses the normal environmental studies and permits that any and all pipeline projects have adhered to in recent history. They try to make it sound as if Keystone XL can't be built without passage of their legislation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    Thanks from Friday13, Minotaur and April15

  7. #7
    B04
    B04 is offline
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    15,199
    Thanks
    6274

    From
    gone
    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    It's likely that the pipeline construction will get underway in due time if nothing is done by Congress. That is an important detail that many in the general public don't seem to understand.

    Congress doesn't need to act at all. What they are proposing is a fast-track process that bypasses the normal environmental studies and permits that any and all pipeline projects have adhered to in recent history. They try to make it sound as if Keystone XL can't be built without passage of their legislation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    You mean, the ones the President said he'd cut through to get the pipeline built? Back in 2012?

    Keystone XL pipeline: President Obama vows to cut through red tape

    During a stop Thursday in Oklahoma, Obama announced the administration would “cut through the red tape” for the southern leg of the Keystone XL pipeline — disappointing environmentalists who had counted it a victory when the president denied a permit for the project’s full, Canada-to-Texas version.
    “Right now, a company called TransCanada has applied to build a new pipeline to speed more oil from Cushing to state-of-the-art refineries down on the Gulf Coast,” the president said, standing in front of rows of green-tinted pipes for an outdoor speech on a chilly, overcast morning at a TransCanada pipe storage yard near Cushing, Okla.

    “And today, I’m directing my administration to cut through the red tape, break through the bureaucratic hurdles and make this project a priority, to go ahead and get it done,” he said.

  8. #8
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,464
    Thanks
    16522

    From
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    It's likely that the pipeline construction will get underway in due time if nothing is done by Congress. That is an important detail that many in the general public don't seem to understand.

    Congress doesn't need to act at all. What they are proposing is a fast-track process that bypasses the normal environmental studies and permits that any and all pipeline projects have adhered to in recent history. They try to make it sound as if Keystone XL can't be built without passage of their legislation. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    They tried one failed workaround with H.R.3 — 113th Congress: Northern Route Approval Act - (Sec. 1)Declares that a presidential permit shall not be required for the pipeline described in the application filed on May 4, 2012, by TransCanada Keystone Pipeline"

    And they used the failed 60 day deadline.

    Hell they can't even get it past the Senate with 60 votes let alone get 67 votes needed for a VETO override.

    In any case the 2 new cases in court will hold it up as the courts in Nebraska did not rule for Keystone, they ruled for landowner's to have traditional legal standing which the new case has. Basically it is going to be very hard not to rule to hold up Keystone since the majority ruled for the landowners.

    But I agree with your basic premise that it could eventually come but when is another thing. Unless Congress can override a VETO there are a lot of if's.
    Last edited by Minotaur; 28th January 2015 at 12:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20,464
    Thanks
    16522

    From
    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by B04 View Post
    (sigh)

    You really need to research prior to posting.


    Presidential Permits, under Executive order 11423... text from Executive Order 11423 states...
    Executive Order 11423 of August 16, 1968


    The operative part is in bold. What that means, is that up until Congressional Authorization is required, the President can 'receive all applications for permits'. It does NOT mean congress is out of the loop, and the President can bypass them in the Keystone XL process.

    Again, listen close, do you think the President will sign a bill ceding presidential power?

  10. #10
    B04
    B04 is offline
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    15,199
    Thanks
    6274

    From
    gone
    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Again, listen close, do you think the President will sign a bill ceding presidential power?
    Presidential Power which is derived from a Presidential Executive Order, and not the Constitution? To avoid THAT battle? Of course he will.
    Thanks from Minotaur

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Keystone pipeline decision delayed
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 123
    Last Post: 27th April 2014, 04:34 PM
  2. Obama Caves on Keystone Pipeline
    By highway234 in forum Current Events
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 4th March 2013, 07:17 AM
  3. Protestors against the Keystone pipeline
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 18th February 2013, 05:36 AM
  4. Keystone oil sands pipeline rejected
    By Babba in forum Current Events
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: 24th January 2012, 06:36 AM
  5. Keystone XL pipeline politics
    By Blackbeard in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 3rd January 2012, 07:11 PM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed