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Thread: Christian Colleges, Religious Liberty, and SB 1146

  1. #21
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    That's true. It may come down to private Universities relying on private grants to have freedoms to teach religion at least in California.
    And that is fine. Such schools may teach what they wish. They are just not entitled to have the public pay for it.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The government is doing no such thing here. If it proposed a law that said it could not be taught at all, then it would be a violation of the First Amendment. What the proposed law would do is make conditions on accepting public money, which does not violate Free Exercise. The school is not entitled to public money, and is not required to accept it. If it is completely privately funded, it can teach what it wants; but it is not entitled to have the public pay to teach discrimination.


    The college can file any suit it wants, but it would not succeed. Since the law would apply to all private religious colleges that accept public money, not the private colleges of just one religion, there is no discrimination against any one religion. Note that, for example, private Jewish and Muslim educational facilities also teach that homosexual activity is sinful, and the proposed law would apply to them, too.
    The law is proposing that schools change their teaching because it promotes discrimination or they will not receive government funding. That is government making a law that prevents free exercise to accommodate what they think is equality. They are selecting one group to provide equality while punishing another for not supporting that group

  3. #23
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    The law is proposing that schools change their teaching because it promotes discrimination or they will not receive government funding.
    Correct. This does not prevent free exercise of religion. Private schools are not entitled to government funding in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    That is government making a law that prevents free exercise....
    No, it is not. You are not entitled to have the government pay for your free exercise of religion than you are entitled to have the government pay for your free speech. The government is not preventing you from exercising your religious beliefs; it merely refuses to pay you for teaching them.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    They are selecting one group to provide equality while punishing another for not supporting that group.
    Not at all. The law is neutral on its face, and applies to any private school receiving government funding.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Correct. This does not prevent free exercise of religion. Private schools are not entitled to government funding in the first place.


    No, it is not. You are not entitled to have the government pay for your free exercise of religion than you are entitled to have the government pay for your free speech. The government is not preventing you from exercising your religious beliefs; it merely refuses to pay you for teaching them.


    Not at all. The law is neutral on its face, and applies to any private school receiving government funding.
    The pendulum could swing both ways with this kind of thinking. I heard Trump threaten to cut off funding to California if they continued their Sanctuary cities program. We could play this game all day long

  5. #25
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Religious schools teach what the Bible says and part of that is that it identifies sin. Government has no authority to pass laws to prevent free exercise as stated in the First Amendment. Are you saying an exception should be made because religious teachings equals discrimination? What is to keep a College from suing the California government for discriminating against Christians. They are a religious group that they are threatening to take actions or else drop your teachings. That is selecting one group to favor while attacking another group the state disapproves of.
    The government is not discriminating against Christians. They are simply not providing these particular tax dollars to schools that discriminate against the LGBT community. I don't care how much you don't like gay people; you can't use your religion as a justified excuse.
    Thanks from Blues63, Ian Jeffrey and Dragonfly5

  6. #26
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    The government is not discriminating against Christians. They are simply not providing these particular tax dollars to schools that discriminate against the LGBT community. I don't care how much you don't like gay people; you can't use your religion as a justified excuse.
    It would be like a Government targeting Jewish Universities with a law that they must accept Jesus as the Messiah or they will stop government funding. Government is discriminating towards Jews and they passed a law that prevents their free exercise of their religious beliefs

  7. #27
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    It would be like a Government targeting Jewish Universities with a law that they must accept Jesus as the Messiah or they will stop government funding.
    No, it is not.

    However, Jewish schools are also not entitled to government money, any more than yours. There is no religious discrimination going on; the proposed law applies equally to all religions.

  8. #28
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, it is not.

    However, Jewish schools are also not entitled to government money, any more than yours. There is no religious discrimination going on; the proposed law applies equally to all religions.
    That is exactly what he hates about it....
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  9. #29
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Religious freedom does not mean the right to limit other people's freedom. And there is no right to receive public money. If the institution wants public money, it has to follow the public's rules.
    So the first amendment does not apply to Christians.
    Thanks from aboutenough

  10. #30
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So the first amendment does not apply to Christians.
    It applies everyone, not just Xians. And it does not permit you to discriminate.

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