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Thread: Wolf urges Congress to fund health benefits for coal miners

  1. #11
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The pension is flirting with insolvency, and retirees are often on Medicare anyway. What exactly are the benefits that these people stand to lose?
    Fuck 'em, right?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Just one more complication of the health care system that needs to be one plan for all.every one covered, isn't that what Trump promised?
    Yeah, he did. It was going to be better coverage, include everyone, and cost less money.
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  3. #13
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Yeah, he did. It was going to be better coverage, include everyone, and cost less money.
    Their first offering was worse coverage, didn't include everyone, and cost more money....a triple failure still supported by the 17% represented by Trump's Droogs.
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  4. #14
    You'll see what I can do Singularity's Avatar
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    It's a nice reminder that actually, coal poisons most everything it touches.

    Even if the carbon is 100% captured and sequestered, which broadly does not happen and will not happen because of cost, it must still be blasted out of the ground endangering anyone nearby who is not wearing a top-quality respirator, it must still be carried with chance of contamination along the whole route, it must still be handled at the plant by human beings who are vulnerable to its toxins. Then the ash must be buried very carefully to prevent water table contamination.

    It is a 19th century resource that the 20th century persisted in using because it was cheap. We need better reasons than that to run all these risks now. Even if we do nothing, the industry is slowly rotting from natural lack of demand. The government needs to focus on healing the damage done and moving on.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member beatleboy's Avatar
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    McConnell has til May 1st to make the decision , he put it on hold for a couple months, said he will make his decision then. I predict the coal miners will get stiffed. These benefits were promised and put into affect back in 20's.
    Last edited by beatleboy; 20th April 2017 at 08:40 AM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member beatleboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Aren't they covered under Obamacare?

    Why do they need double coverage?

    Oh yeah, this is the union asking government to pay out the benefits,
    No, their pension and healthcare was guaranteed by the Gov't. The coal miners and the union are only asking for what they had been promised by legislation of Congress.
    Last edited by beatleboy; 20th April 2017 at 08:34 AM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Medicare isn't free, and there are copays.
    I didn't say Medicare beneficiaries pay zero, did I?

    If a coalminer's pension, that retired coalminers are also at risk of losing, is $500 a month,
    Is it, though? I'm just asking what it actually is that they're at risk of losing. The link doesn't answer that question.

    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    They aren't covered by obamacare because they have group coverage as part of their negotiated compensation package.
    It's true that having some other type of coverage disqualifies you from what the law provides. So if they ceased having that group coverage, they'd be eligible for all of Obamacare's generous benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Funny how these fools think Medicare is free
    Who thinks Medicare is free?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    Fuck 'em, right?
    Don't have anything to say, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    No, their pension and healthcare was guaranteed by the Gov't.
    "The government" of eons ago is not "the government" of today, nor are the taxpayers of eons ago "the taxpayers" of today. This is the moral problem of defined benefits. This moral problem will not go away until defined benefits go away.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I didn't say Medicare beneficiaries pay zero, did I?

    Is it, though? I'm just asking what it actually is that they're at risk of losing. The link doesn't answer that question.

    It's true that having some other type of coverage disqualifies you from what the law provides. So if they ceased having that group coverage, they'd be eligible for all of Obamacare's generous benefits.

    Who thinks Medicare is free?

    Don't have anything to say, huh?

    "The government" of eons ago is not "the government" of today, nor are the taxpayers of eons ago "the taxpayers" of today. This is the moral problem of defined benefits. This moral problem will not go away until defined benefits go away.
    We can make new agreements going forward, however if the government is to have any credibility (what does full faith and credit of the U.S. mean) it has a sacred duty to keep its agreements with the peeps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    We can make new agreements going forward, however if the government is to have any credibility (what does full faith and credit of the U.S. mean) it has a sacred duty to keep its agreements with the peeps.
    The United Mine Workers of America, a labor union, was the administrator of this pension. Who made the promise to whom?

    How would government be violating a promise by opting not to pass a new law that would bail out the union's failing pension?

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    fuck'em, right?
    Are you saying that letting them use Obamacare is fucking them?

    I thought it was such a wonderful program?

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