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Thread: Wolf urges Congress to fund health benefits for coal miners

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    No, their pension and healthcare was guaranteed by the Gov't. The coal miners and the union are only asking for what they had been promised by legislation of Congress.
    Obviously it wasn't guaranteed or they wouldn't have to ask to keep it.

  2. #22
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    If I invest in something with the hope and expectation it will grow and provide for me in retirement, and it goes bust, I lose. I'm not entitled to government bailing me out. Sorry to me.

    These people took a gamble on their union being willing and able to effectively run a pension fund. It's going bust. So they lose. They're not entitled to government bailing out the union they supported. Sorry to them.

    Also worth noting, as McConnell has aptly pointed out, this would solely be a handout to the union miners. It doesn't help non-union mine workers.

    Kill the bill.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 20th April 2017 at 09:33 AM.
    Thanks from Spookycolt and RNG

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If I invest in something with the hope and expectation it will grow and provide for me in retirement, and it goes bust, I lose. I'm not entitled to government bailing me out. Sorry to me.

    These people took a gamble on their union being willing and able to effectively run a pension fund. It's going bust. You lose. You're not entitled to government bailing out the union you supported. Sorry to you.

    Also worth noting, as McConnell has aptly pointed out, this would solely be a handout to the union miners. It doesn't help non-union mine workers.

    Kill the bill.
    That pretty much nails it.

    Well said.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    No, their pension and healthcare was guaranteed by the Gov't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Obviously it wasn't guaranteed or they wouldn't have to ask to keep it.
    “The UMWA agreement was made between the members and the UMWA, not between the members and the American taxpayer.” - Senator Mike Enzi, (R-WY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The United Mine Workers of America, a labor union, was the administrator of this pension. Who made the promise to whom?

    How would government be violating a promise by opting not to pass a new law that would bail out the union's failing pension?
    its complicated. Bottom line, miners are not at fault. They did the work, they negotiated in good faith, mine owners have bankruptcy court to turn to to let them off the hook for their obligations, miners deserve to be taken care of as promised.

    The Other War on Coal: Thousands of Retired Miners Could Lose Their Health Care and Pensions | Mother Jones

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    its complicated. Bottom line, miners are not at fault. They did the work, they negotiated in good faith, mine owners have bankruptcy court to turn to to let them off the hook for their obligations, miners deserve to be taken care of as promised.

    The Other War on Coal: Thousands of Retired Miners Could Lose Their Health Care and Pensions | Mother Jones
    Buyer beware.

    If you believe liberal promises this is what will happen to you.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    “The UMWA agreement was made between the members and the UMWA, not between the members and the American taxpayer.” - Senator Mike Enzi, (R-WY)
    It goes back to an agreement reached in 1946 between miner operators, the unions, and government.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    its complicated. Bottom line, miners are not at fault. They did the work, they negotiated in good faith, mine owners have bankruptcy court to turn to to let them off the hook for their obligations, miners deserve to be taken care of as promised.

    The Other War on Coal: Thousands of Retired Miners Could Lose Their Health Care and Pensions | Mother Jones
    Exactly, his comment is absurd, because the coal companies or any other company has protections, they can just file for bankruptcy, the people, screw them

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    It goes back to an agreement reached in 1946 between miner operators, the unions, and government.
    And I believe that agreement had an expiration date.

    It was not good indefinitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    Trump owes the coal miners at least that.
    No he doesn't. Trump did not make pension promises to these UMWA workers.

    Another example of privatizing profits, while socializing risk.
    The risk isn't socialized if Congress kills this bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    McConnell has til May 1st to make the decision , he put it on hold for a couple months, said he will make his decision then. I predict the coal miners will get stiffed.
    They already have been. By the UMWA.

    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    The coal miners and the union are only asking for what they had been promised by legislation of Congress.
    Do you want to try rephrasing that in light of the clarification provided by Senator Enzi?

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