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Thread: Cultural appropriation and art

  1. #71
    You just made the list! Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    How do you get from a group making legitimate complaints to inventing the internet? (The WWW was a British invention.) [Sir Tim Berners-Lee, you're welcome.]
    That's their complaint. Since someone outside their group didn't invent this form of art they aren't allowed to create art using it. Well if they're going to be culturally selfish then they should stay out of other peoples' cultures.

  2. #72
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Who in 1960 could have even possibly conceived of a half black President.

    People adjust if everyone just chills the fuck out and lets them.
    Nonsense. They just find new ways to play at behaving like hysterical nitwits.

    Us Boomers are certainly not the gold standard for piercing, insightful political thought and social justice.

    Fuck, we can't even math our way to retirement planning.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Although to be fair, these criticisms come from a pretty small sliver of the art criticism world (in many ways they're the snob's "What's Hot and What's Not" of People Magazine, who use the phrase "highly problematic" a lot). It's mostly young people still in school or recently graduated trying to one up each other in showing their commitment to justice. If blackface is bad, then it can't be any different than dressing as a Native American, which is really the same thing as imitating the voice of someone from China, which is just like white guys with their hair in dreadlocks, which is no different than Tom Delay doing the Tango (which I have to agree, is an abomination):



    The thing is though, for the most part it isn't quite censorship, although it's close. It's people trying to drown out one person's freedom of expression with their own freedom of expression. And also, most people in the art world simply ignore or mock them. Just like in this thread.
    That's some truly bad dancing. Wow.
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  4. #74
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Canada failed Native people for a long, long time. And didn't even do it for a reason, we did it out of pure old fashioned "not giving a fuck".

    It's true, and most people know it.

    But since the 1970s the leadership that is failing Natives is their own. And the culture that is failing them is this ultra-ultra regressive, tribal, Luddite xenophobic nostalgia-cult that thinks they can "live off the land" in the exact way their 200 years ago ancestors did, but also magically have modern schools and medicine.

    The only way to possibly improve the lives of Native kids is to teach them about the huge, beautiful, fascinating world that's all around outside their tiny, shitty little bubble.

    And that's the one thing we are never allowed to do.
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    They live here, they have kids here, they have jobs here, they pay taxes here, they own property here, they own businesses here, they belong to churches here, their kids go to school here, they have SS benefits accruing that like all of us they won't see till they retire, they have 401K here. They're invested the same as you and me. Just because they can't trace their ancestors back to the Mayflower doesn't mean this place isn't their home.

    You have an expectation of Americanism you don't even hold Americans too. Besides the people in the OP are native Canadians. If native Americans started bitching about cultural appropriation would you whine that they weren't "American" enough?
    I was speaking to the abandonment of the "melting pot" assimilation model and the inherent contradictions of multiculturalism, not about any particular individuals. And I specifically mentioned immigrants to this country, both legal and illegal. The only commitment that illegals have demonstrated is a commitment to violate our laws and take advantage of our generosity. And although most legal immigrants have demonstrated their commitment by jumping through all the hoops demanded of them by USCIS, proving that they are law abiding enough, healthy enough, and financially responsible enough to enter our fine country, there are groups of asylees who are like the Tsarnaev family; they are clearly willing to take advantage of our gullibility and generosity but they hate America and Americans. And that's what the "salad bowl" gives us. Diversity for diversity's sake with no inherent benefit to our country except maybe some tasty new cuisines.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Canada failed Native people for a long, long time. And didn't even do it for a reason, we did it out of pure old fashioned "not giving a fuck".

    It's true, and most people know it.

    But since the 1970s the leadership that is failing Natives is their own. And the culture that is failing them is this ultra-ultra regressive, tribal, Luddite xenophobic nostalgia-cult that thinks they can "live off the land" in the exact way their 200 years ago ancestors did, but also magically have modern schools and medicine.

    The only way to possibly improve the lives of Native kids is to teach them about the huge, beautiful, fascinating world that's all around outside their tiny, shitty little bubble.

    And that's the one thing we are never allowed to do.
    I assume then that you're familiar with the story of Attiwapiskat. Natives have failed themselves more than Canada has failed them.
    Attawapiskat First Nation must repay $1.8 million, government says - National | Globalnews.ca

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    While this concept is happening now in the US, it has been happening here for three generations. Your question is valid. Will you listen to the answer?

    It benefits the host nation because those millions of immigrants settle and are... here's the key part... happy.

    They thrive. Granny speaks the home language, mum struggles with English and the little daughter is fluent in both. The family functions in the home, and in public differently, but it functions in both places. No one is angry. No one is humiliated. No one is excluded. They interact with neighbors and they learn slowly.

    In 20 years, granny is in the grave, mom is now living in both worlds, and daughter has married outside the culture. She and her husband delivered a baby and that baby is 10% her culture, 10% his, and 80% Canadian - or American in your case.

    25 years after that, that kid's kid only speaks English and has no real connection to their roots.

    That's how our forefathers did it. That's the truth. We just don't remember because we're that kids kid.

    In my grandpas time there were entire towns of German, Swedish, French, Portuguese speakers. Where only the kids spoke English.

    Niw theyre all gone. Even though no one ever forced them to change.
    What you're describing is "melting pot" assimilation. It's a model that is good for a country with plenty of room for immigrants like Canada or the U.S. But there's less imperative for assimilation now than in the past, and I know many Canadians who decry the changes in their country, and many Americans too. Immigration on too large a scale is itself antagonistic to assimilation, and now our culture is insisting on maintaining separate cultures. And we're supposed to "celebrate" diversity, whether it be an immigrant culture, or the criminal ghetto culture. To do otherwise is apparently considered racist. How well does that work out in the long run? Think Balkans... or Detroit.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    Diversity for diversity's sake with no inherent benefit to our country except maybe some tasty new cuisines.
    Not sure how you equate multiculturalism with arguments about immigration. We've always been multicultural, and we've always had nativists who were mad about it.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Not sure how you equate multiculturalism with arguments about immigration. We've always been multicultural, and we've always had nativists who were mad about it.
    What you are having trouble with is your incorrect assumption that any argument against multiculturalism is necessarily anti-immigration and also your assumption that arguments against ILLEGAL immigration are necessarily anti-immigration and racist. If you can manage to think past your assumptions you might just be able to understand what I'm saying. I already explained quite succinctly why I believe multiculturalism is anti-assimilation and why I think assimilation is a very necessary aspect of a successful immigration program. You need to learn to read and understand what others write instead of defaulting to knee-jerk opposition at the mere mention of trigger words.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    I was speaking to the abandonment of the "melting pot" assimilation model and the inherent contradictions of multiculturalism, not about any particular individuals. And I specifically mentioned immigrants to this country, both legal and illegal. The only commitment that illegals have demonstrated is a commitment to violate our laws and take advantage of our generosity. And although most legal immigrants have demonstrated their commitment by jumping through all the hoops demanded of them by USCIS, proving that they are law abiding enough, healthy enough, and financially responsible enough to enter our fine country, there are groups of asylees who are like the Tsarnaev family; they are clearly willing to take advantage of our gullibility and generosity but they hate America and Americans. And that's what the "salad bowl" gives us. Diversity for diversity's sake with no inherent benefit to our country except maybe some tasty new cuisines.
    This melting pot assimilation model is no more enforceable than the model of mandatory cultural authenticity.
    Thanks from StanStill and Madeline

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