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Thread: Tulsa cop found not guilty of shooting unarmed black man

  1. #241
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    I'm looking for liberals to prove me wrong but every time the opportunity comes up, they side with the lawbreaker, criminal, or illegal.
    I personally don't give a flying fuck what you're looking for.

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  2. #242
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Mr. Jeffrey,

    And by troll, you mean someone you can't beat in a debate, right?
    There is no debate. You have not debated. You have only lied, then declared victory. I.e., you are a troll.
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  3. #243
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    I've been clear on this for a long time, thread after thread the liberals prove it true. The liberals in this forum are always siding with the lawbreakers, criminals, and illegals. It just keeps happening. A jury issued a verdict here but that isn't good enough. The liberals hate cops because they stand for law and order. They hate the military. They hate America. They believe that this country is unfair and they should be able to have just as much as others regardless of what work they put forth.

    And they wonder why they've lost all power at the federal level. Damn moochers.
    You must of missed the part where you don't get to lecture others anymore because of your support for your "hero".
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  4. #244
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    Juror shares letter from Betty Shelby trial | FOX23

    On the Matter of the Open Window:
    It is clear to the Jury after intensely studying the video, still photos, and testimony that the windows to the SUV driven by Terrance Crutcher that evening were open and that the Jury believes from said evidence that Terrance Crutcher did in fact reach into the window, disobeying the instructions of the police officers on location.

    On the Matter of the Instant in which Terrance Crutcher was shot:
    The Jury concluded that any officer put in that situation at that exact moment and regardless of the skin color, gender or size of the suspect, would have performed the same way, which is in accordance with their law enforcement training. By all evidence presented, that instant required action, which two officers took simultaneously. That moment, according to the evidence presented, was unfortunate and tragic, but justifiable due to the actions of the suspect.

    On the Matter of the Moments Proceeding the Weapons Discharge:
    While Officer Shelby made a justifiable decision at the very moment she pulled the trigger according to her training, when reviewing the moments before she discharged her weapon, the jury wonders and some believe that she had other options available to subdue Mr. Crutcher before he reached his car. What is unclear based on the testimony and the evidence presented in that courtroom, was whether her judgment at that time was in accordance to her training as a police officer in the line of duty or whether her training allowed her to holster her service weapon and draw her Taser instead. There was no evidence presented that she was acting outside of her training, or even if her training allowed her flexibility of a decision at that point. All discussion of what her training requires in that instant, as presented in the trial, favored the Defense's case.

    The Jury, without knowledge of the guidelines learned through law enforcement training, believes that a Taser attempt to subdue Mr. Crutcher before he reached his vehicle could have saved his life and that potential scenario was seemingly an option available to her; however, there was no evidence presented that her extensive training allowed such an option. The Jury could not, beyond a reasonable doubt, conclude that she did anything outside of her duties and training as a police officer in that situation. This was critical to the verdict rendered. Because of this perceived option that she may have had, many on the Jury could never get comfortable with the concept of Betty Shelby being blameless for Mr. Crutcher's death, but due to the lack of
    direct or even circumstantial evidence that she was acting outside of her training in the 30 feet prior to Mr. Crutcher reaching the window of that SUV, the Jury was forced by the rule of law to render a not guilty verdict.

    On the Matter of Heat of Passion:
    The Jury was provided very specific instructions regarding the Heat of Passion aspect of the Manslaughter in the First Degree charge. Key to these instructions was that the intense emotion had to dominate the person's thought process at the very instant the act of homicide was committed. Evidence presented led the Jury to believe that Officer Shelby was indeed fearful, increasingly so as the incident escalated. However, the Jury concluded that she did act with in the confines of her training at that very moment when the homicide was committed.

    The evidence presented did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt anything to the contrary that Training, not fear, dominated in her choice to perform that action at that time she discharged her weapon, which was evidenced at least in part by the fact that two officers simultaneously fired their weapons in response to Mr. Crutcher's actions.

    On the Matter of Deliberation.
    I am confident this was a strong jury and it was an honor to serve with them. Each took his or her respective civic duty and the oath made to the court very seriously. Each was engaged in the process, taking notes of the extensive and complicated evidence and testimony brought before them. Each honored the instructions given by the Judge throughout the process. The deliberation, though long, was extremely efficient with regard to the ground it covered in reviewing and discussing the evidence. The members of the Jury were collaborative and
    respectful of each others views as we muddled through a very complicated matter. In addition to the review of the testimony and evidence presented in court, we also very carefully studied and considered the judges instructions which guided the Jury in how to reach its conclusions under the narrow constraints of the law.

    I believe that I speak for the whole of the Jury, when I say that the general public in these types of cases are unaware of just how specifically the rule of law dictates how a Jury must reach a verdict. The State, in this case, had the burden to prove guilt to each element of the respective charge, beyond a reasonable doubt. Some elements are extremely specific, which makes it more challenging for the prosecution to cross that barrier of "beyond a reasonable doubt". In this case, after extensive deliberation, we the Jury, in accordance with the instructions provided by the Court and through examination of all evidence presented, could not overcome guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and consequently delivered a "not guilty" verdict.

    On the Matter of Terrance Crutcher's History
    Terrance Crutcher had an arrest history and multiple outstanding arrest warrants. Guilt in previous incidents, were not considered as a means to justify Officer Shelby's actions.
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  5. #245
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    So we now know that he DID "reach into the window".

    Contrary to what some people have said.

    And "skin color, gender, or size of the suspect" didn't matter.

    And that Mr Crutcher's extensive criminal history did not matter, either.

    All good info that may actually change some people minds.

    Not all, probably...

  6. #246
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Nice find.

    Thanks.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    There is no debate. You have not debated. You have only lied, then declared victory. I.e., you are a troll.
    Mr. Jeffery,

    And by "lied," you of course mean you couldn't counter my debate, right....

  8. #248
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    And by "lied," you of course mean you couldn't counter my debate, right....
    No, just that you are lying and trolling.

    Internet troll 3.jpegTroll spray.jpg

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, just that you are lying and trolling.

    Internet troll 3.jpegTroll spray.jpg
    Mr. Jeffrey,

    What is that now, three post that you cannot counter my debate except with ad hominem....

    Going back to my original contention that this case is yet another example of where liberals hate the rule of law when it goes against what they believe. Luckily, the jury was made up of rational minded people who, and I quote:

    "...after extensive deliberation, we the Jury, in accordance with the instructions provided by the Court and through examination of all evidence presented, could not overcome guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and consequently delivered a “not guilty” verdict."

  10. #250
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    What is that now, three post that you cannot counter my debate except with ad hominem....
    You are not debating. You are making dishonest statements and trying to move the goalpost to declare victory. In other words, lying and trolling. You have not offered any "debate" to counter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Going back to my original contention that this case is yet another example of where liberals hate the rule of law when it goes against what they believe.
    Actually, conservatives hate the rule of law when they disagree with the law. See aboutenough's comments in the Dirty Harry thread, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallie Knoetze View Post
    Luckily, the jury was made up of rational minded people....
    You do not know they were rational-minded. Rather, you assume they were because you agree with the verdict and the belief that the officer had the right to shoot anyone she wanted.

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