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Thread: The Court-Ordered Killing of Charlie Gard

  1. #41
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Judging by responses, I presume some want a government that would take such decisions out of a family's hands, even a family who has the resources and desire to try last-ditch experimental procedures on another continent. Forcing me to wonder where they might draw the line. coma patients come to mind. pull the feeding tube?
    This child's parents do not 'have the resources'. His care up to now is from UHC, paid for by the public. The money for the trip to US was donated by others. To date they have had to pay for nothing. The 'experimental treatment' in question has not even been tested on rats, and it has been determined that his extensive brain damage CAN NOT be reversed. The parents are acting more out of selfishness than 'love'.
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  2. #42
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    The Doctors gave him 10 months in ICU. That is a long time for an incurable, terminal condition. I felt pushed, really pushed, regarding my mother after 3 days. And she could breathe!
    That was generous. Here, after the battle with the insurance company, Charlie would have been moved to sub-acute, which is between ICU and long term care and begin working with the parents to help them accept the loss of their son. Sometimes it is a slow process and hospice is usually approved for a long time. My Mom had a advanced directive, so I knew what she wanted and she expressed it to me often. A baby is a different experience, I could not imagine what these parents are going through. The providers who are involved with Charlie's care should be compassionate, kind, loving with infinite patience with this family.
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  3. #43
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Our government didn't, Terri's parents did. Where do spouses fall on your familial pecking order? Do you not consider them worthy of such decisions?
    Bullshit. A bill was passed in Congress after a "diagnosis" that she was not brain dead by Frist from a doctored/edited video. Bush43 interrupted his never-ending vacation to rush to DC and sign the leg. The other Bush in FL also did his best to stop it. The autopsy proved them all wrong...most of her brain was not there, much less functioning.

  4. #44
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    That was generous. Here, after the battle with the insurance company, Charlie would have been moved to sub-acute, which is between ICU and long term care and begin working with the parents to help them accept the loss of their son. Sometimes it is a slow process and hospice is usually approved for a long time. My Mom had a advanced directive, so I knew what she wanted and she expressed it to me often. A baby is a different experience, I could not imagine what these parents are going through. The providers who are involved with Charlie's care should be compassionate, kind, loving with infinite patience with this family.
    Do you mean hospice for a long time? If so, might as well let him go try for treatment, rather than just stay dying for an extended period. The courts (seems to me) are trying to stop his suffering.

  5. #45
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Let's look at it through another angle, just for discussion. Let's look at this through the lens of the baker who was penalized for not baking a cake due to a claim that doing so violated his religious beliefs. While not a religious belief, or maybe it is, what do we do in a situation where the continued care for a patient in pain, a course of care that a doctor views would make that patient's life unbearable and heartbreaking, violates a doctor's morals and ethics. If you believe that the baker should not be required to bake the cake because it supposedly violates his religious views, should the physician be required to provide care if the course of care violates their ethics or morals?

    Just a thought...
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Do you mean hospice for a long time? If so, might as well let him go try for treatment, rather than just stay dying for an extended period. The courts (seems to me) are trying to stop his suffering.
    I think my point, in the US, this case, most likely, would not have gone to the Court system. The hospitals would solve this problem with case workers, counselors and hospice. It is just best if the parents are on board with end of life decisions by removing artificial life support.

  7. #47
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Here is what the American Dr says he has a 'small chance' at achieving: He said the therapy, which would be tried for six months, would provide a "small chance" of a meaningful improvement in Charlie's brain function.
    "[Charlie] may be able to interact. To smile. To look at objects," he said.

    OK, I can see why the parents would want to grasp at that. But then what? Still a 'life' in ICU but then it's even harder to let go. I could NOT have let my mother go without force, I can tell you, if she had been able to interact, smile, etc.

    And how much smiling will this baby be doing if that is all he might be able to sometimes do? I'm sorry, it's just nuts. I will say I think they have a right. However the funds were gathered, they have the right to try this.

    Charlie Gard: US doctor says therapy would be uncharted territory - BBC News

  8. #48
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I think my point, in the US, this case, most likely, would not have gone to the Court system. The hospitals would solve this problem with case workers, counselors and hospice. It is just best if the parents are on board with end of life decisions by removing artificial life support.
    They would block the experimental treatment? Paid for by the parents?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    That was generous. Here, after the battle with the insurance company, Charlie would have been moved to sub-acute, which is between ICU and long term care and begin working with the parents to help them accept the loss of their son. Sometimes it is a slow process and hospice is usually approved for a long time. My Mom had a advanced directive, so I knew what she wanted and she expressed it to me often. A baby is a different experience, I could not imagine what these parents are going through. The providers who are involved with Charlie's care should be compassionate, kind, loving with infinite patience with this family.
    Gentle prodding, accompanied by much love, understanding and family counseling seems right. I doubt everyone in this couple's family agrees Charlie has a chance, and many may be afraid to cause a rift. Whatever happens, I can't imagine the torment Charlie's parents are going through, and instinctively object to them being rushed by government or judged by the public.
    Last edited by webrockk; 1st July 2017 at 08:49 PM.

  10. #50
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    It would only become harder if they got the treatment. If it worked, and the baby started smiling at them and such they would never stop.

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