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Thread: Jehovah's Witnesses lose appeal

  1. #1
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Jehovah's Witnesses lose appeal

    Russia's Supreme Court has ordered the disbanding of the Jehovah's Witnesses on Russian territory.

    The ban came into effect after the court rejected an appeal by the religious group against a ruling in April which declared it to be extremist.

    The justice ministry had argued that the group distributed pamphlets which incited hatred against other groups.

    The group described the ruling as the end of religious freedom in Russia.

    The denomination says it has 175,000 members in Russia - a country where it was persecuted during the Stalin era.

    An estimated eight million people worldwide are part of the Christian-based movement, best known for going door-to-door looking for new converts.

    The ruling means that the group's headquarters near St Petersburg and 395 local chapters will close.

    It will be required to hand over all its properties, known as Kingdom Halls, to the Russian government.

    The group's Russia spokesman, Yaroslav Sivulsky, said that "religious freedom in Russia is over".

    "There were no real facts of any extremism on part of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's all about bad literature and intolerance. Now anyone who studies the Bible can be jailed," he said, quoted by Newsweek magazine.

    One pamphlet distributed by the group quoted the novelist Leo Tolstoy as describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery.

    Officials have accused the religion of destroying families, propagating hatred and endangering lives. The Church had also joined calls for a ban.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses group was founded in the United States in the 19th century.

    They take most of the Bible literally and refuse blood transfusions. They are not seen by traditional Christian Churches as a mainstream denomination.

    During Joseph Stalin's reign of terror in the Soviet Union it was outlawed and thousands of members were deported to Siberia. Other Christian groups were also persecuted.

    As the Soviet Union collapsed, there was a revival of Christianity in Russia and the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses was lifted in 1991. But attitudes hardened again and in 2004 it was accused of recruiting children and preventing believers from accepting medical assistance.

    Human rights group Sova has argued that an "official repressive campaign" has been conducted against the movement for years and many of their members have been physically attacked.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses are expected to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, but Russia may well ignore any verdict in their favour.
    Russia Jehovah's Witnesses banned after they lose appeal - BBC News

    Also: Jehovah's Witnesses Ban Appeal Rejected by Russia's Supreme Court, Allowing Government to Seize Worship Halls

    About 5 days ago, in Surazh, Bryansk region, police arrested a woman from "Near Abroad" (that is - from another neighboring ex-Soviet republic, likely either Belarus or Ukraine, both of them border this region) for pestering and bothering locals, by going around knocking on people's doors and, allegedly, trying to convince them to join the JWs. She will have to pay a fine of 40,000 rubles (about $680): ?*??????? ????????? ??????????? ??????????? «?????????? ??????»

    Then, there is this recent story from Crimea: Jehovah's Witness made to renounce his faith...

    And I have not found any updates about this fellow so far: JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES IN RUSSIA: DANISH CITIZEN FACES UP TO 10 YEARS IN PRISON AFTER BIBLE READING

    I've read also of an arson of a JW building in the Urals somewhere. Bloody nationalist vigilantes getting involved too, awesome...

    Mormon missionaries are also having to adapt, they cannot even call themselves "missionaries" anymore, they are "volunteers" now, at best: Mormonism's Russia dilemma: How to grow a fledgling faith with missionaries who can't do missionary work. | The Salt Lake Tribune

    I do believe the ultimate goal is to squeeze these American denominations out of Russia entirely...

    The Orthodox Church detests all Western Christianity, consider Baptists and Catholics heathens and heretics; let alone these ones... lol
    Last edited by The Man; 17th July 2017 at 12:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Loki's Avatar
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    Not really a big issue, it's just a money game.
    They - the religions - know that every new convert is a tither.
    It's been that way since Catholisim, nothing new.
    Money money
    Thanks from The Man

  3. #3
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Not really a big issue, it's just a money game.
    They - the religions - know that every new convert is a tither.
    It's been that way since Catholisim, nothing new.
    Money money
    There is that. And the Orthodox Church certainly makes a big deal especially out of members of other denominations it is able to convert.

    Here, for example, in Novosibirsk, in Siberia, a bunch of "fallen sectants" ("sect" and "cult" is what in Russia are often labelled not only actual bad cults; but any minority religions not sanctioned by the government, including Scientology, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Hindu Hare Krishna group) who have learned the error of their ways and are "returning to the Mother Church"


    Followers do equal money and political power.

    Not that the Church is actually lacking either at the moment.

    Patriarch Kirill already lives like a fucking oligarch, two palaces, two personal yachts, 3 or even 4 jets, and a net worth of about $4 billion to his name...

    And as for political power, lets put it this way:

    He often flies around on a government issue Ilyushin Il-96



    That plane is part of an exclusive special fleet called simply "The Russia Squadron", which also includes a similar Il-96 for Prime Minister Medvedev

    and two larger, state of the art (Board #1 and Board #1) Tupolev Tu-214s for Putin


    (Putin used to also fly on a Il-96, left over from Yeltsin; but, I guess, after awhile, he decided, I'm the fucking boss, why should I not have better fucking planes than fucking Medvedev??? lol)

    Plus, Kirill also gets his own protection detail from the FSO, the Russian Secret Service

    again, like Putin and Medvedev.

    If he is not formally at least the #3 official in Russia, he is certainly being treated like one...

    And he runs the Church like a total dictator, his portraits everywhere

    no dissent allowed. He retaliates viciously against anyone who questions him and his teachings. Rank and file clergy just keep their eyes to the floor and their mouths shut. You do NOT want to offend His Holiness...

    And these Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and such threaten the Patriarch's wealth and power, by showing Russians there are different kinds of Christianity out there, ones where they don't have to kowtow before men in dark robes and whatnot...

    Different ways of thinking and seeing the world. This is what they want to eradicate.

    Modern Church is no different than Communism a few decades back... Sad
    Last edited by The Man; 18th July 2017 at 07:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Not really a big issue, it's just a money game.
    They - the religions - know that every new convert is a tither.
    It's been that way since Catholisim, nothing new.
    Money money
    I skip the middle man and give my money directly to God.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Im not sensing a lot of empathy for people who's religion just got banned by a despot government and its state theocrats. After being persecuted and physically beaten, now their property is being seized.


    What does Russia have to do to wake The West up? What level of atrocity is it going to take?
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  6. #6
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    One could argue that Jehovah's Witnesses have been losing their appeal for years.
    Thanks from Dr.Knuckles

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    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Right wingers want America to be like Russia. One official religion and squash all the rest.

    Putin learned form his KGB/Soveit days...give people religion and they don't notice the graft and corruption.
    Thanks from The Man and OHjulie

  8. #8
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    One could argue that Jehovah's Witnesses have been losing their appeal for years.
    They are just like so many others. Controlled. I know too much about their beliefs not to consider them a cult, but so are most other sects.

    Control has always been the game.

  9. #9
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Im not sensing a lot of empathy for people who's religion just got banned by a despot government and its state theocrats. After being persecuted and physically beaten, now their property is being seized.


    What does Russia have to do to wake The West up? What level of atrocity is it going to take?
    Tamper with Canadian elections?
    Thanks from The Man and OHjulie

  10. #10
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    Right wingers want America to be like Russia. One official religion and squash all the rest.

    Putin learned form his KGB/Soveit days...give people religion and they don't notice the graft and corruption.
    The Patriarch himself used to be a snitch for the KGB back tben too lol

    The Church itself is as corrupt as all the rest there.

    Some people think the previous Patriarch, Alexiy II, who died back in 2008, was a better man than Kirill.

    Wrong... Sadly, wrong.

    Here, he is meeting with the mafia boss Sergey Mikhailov, the head of the Solntsevskaya Bratva, the largest and most powerful organized crime syndicate in Russia, this guy: Wow... Just... Wow...


    And here, with Vladimir Barsukov-Kumarin, the head of the Tambovskaya Bratva, which basically runs St. Petersburg to this day


    The Church and the mob have been close for a very long time. The Church has its own import/export channels, to maintain contact with congregations abroad, all over the world. Russian customs officials never really check labelled Church cargo, out of respect and such. This is perfect for the mafia and their smuggling activities. They are known, for example, to trade Russian weapons for Colombian cocaine, with the cartels over there. And some notable figures in the Church have been implicated in helping transport the cocaine to Russia. The Church, of course, denied it all ferociously, insisting they are against all drug use lol

    But, in fact, the Church, of course, doubly profits from the drugs: whatever the mob pays them to use their import channels + whatever the government pays them to run rehab centers for addicts in their monasteries around the country



    Bloody bastards...

    And you bet Kirill continued this after be took over. Got even closer to the mafia, from what I heard. Even used them to eliminate, physically, a number of people who threatened the interests of the Church and his own. Alexiy, at the very least, did not employ gangsters to kill for him... So, in that respect, yes, he WAS the better man...

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