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Thread: Half of Republicans say they would support postponing the 2020 election if Trump prop

  1. #71
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    Jefferson being President is not relevant to his latter quote. The first quote was four years prior to the Bill of Rights. There was no design regarding the President and the press under the First Amendment, and there certainly was no design for a lying and partisan press.
    (1) Of COURSE it is relevant. Jefferson was having a rather TESTY relationship with the press in 1807. DUH.

    (2) It is a GOOD thing that there is almost always an ADVERSARIAL relationship between the press and the President. And you would probably be able to figure out WHY if you just stopped to think about it. Why don't you do that? Maybe even right now.

  2. #72
    Member tnbskts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Meh.

    A few years ago, there was no shortage of lunatic Republicans who were absolutely certain that President Obama would find some way to remain in office beyond the end of his second term.
    Well, yes, but I doubt that a poll of Democrats would have shown 50% of them in support of that.
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  3. #73
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnbskts View Post
    Well, yes, but I doubt that a poll of Democrats would have shown 50% of them in support of that.
    Well, maybe if they had known that DONALD TRUMP (!!!) was gonna be the next President..........
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  4. #74
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    1. It's either a Convention or 2/3 of Congress, not both.

    2. It's 3/4 of the states - legislatures or conventions, as provided for in the proposed amendment.
    Oh. 3/4. I'm sorry. I stand corrected. However, my point stands. Thank you for correcting my details, Ian.
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  5. #75
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Of course, this is the thing that so many of us, who never wanted Trump in office, are afraid of. Trump is a demagogue who cares not one whit about tradition, form, or standards of practice. And a great many of the things that we take for granted - like elections - only happen because everyone respects the tradition of the Constitution, and the standard of Law. But, this is a man who doesn't appear to respct either. So the Constitution says we have elections every four years. So what? What happens if this man - with, apparently, the support of a quarter of his party - just says, "Nope,"

    "But, Mr. President, the Constitution..."
    "Nope."
    "But...but...Mr. President, the Courts..."
    "Nope,"

    What then? He is systematically replacing the cabinet, and top law enforcement agencies with people who are "loyal" to him, so its not like we can expect any of them will stop him. So, what do we do, if this man just blatantly takes a piss on the Constitution, and tells the Courts to go fuck themselves? This is the problem with a demagogue. Because a demagogue is spitting distance away from tyrant, and dictator.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 12th August 2017 at 06:09 AM.
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  6. #76
    Veteran Member Dragonfly5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    The 22nd amendment has been proposed to be changed multiple times over the years.

    Harry Reid even tried.

    Funny thing is, if I remember correctly, is that its usually pushed for by a democrat under a republican president.
    Mitch, the turtle, McConnell did this also. Is he a democrat?

  7. #77
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Of course, this is the thing that so many of us, who never wanted Trump in office, are afraid of. Trump is a demagogue who cares not one whit about tradition, form, or standards of practice. And a great many of the things that we take for granted - like elections - only happen because everyone respects the tradition of the Constitution, and the standard of Law. But, this is a man who doesn't appear to respct either. So the Constitution says we have elections every four years. So what? What happens if this man - with, apparently, the support of a quarter of his party - just says, "Nope,"

    "But, Mr. President, the Constitution..."
    "Nope."
    "But...but...Mr. President, the Courts..."
    "Nope,"

    What then? He is systematically replacing the cabinet, and top law enforcement agencies with people who are "loyal" to him, so its not like we can expect any of them will stop him. So, what do we do, if this man just blatantly takes a piss on the Constitution, and tells the Courts to go fuck themselves? This is the problem with a demagogue. Because a demagogue is spitting distance away from tyrant, and dictator.
    He uses the phrase 'so-called judges', and his drooling followers lap it up. Very dangerous, indeed.
    Thanks from Czernobog

  8. #78
    A Character Tennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    (1) Of COURSE it is relevant. Jefferson was having a rather TESTY relationship with the press in 1807. DUH.

    (2) It is a GOOD thing that there is almost always an ADVERSARIAL relationship between the press and the President. And you would probably be able to figure out WHY if you just stopped to think about it. Why don't you do that? Maybe even right now.
    Jefferson being President is not relevant to his latter quote because Jefferson biggest battle with the press was during the 1800 election. The statement is still not relevant because Jefferson’s negative sentiments regarding the press started before he was elected President. His attitude towards the press was the same prior to being elected President as it was after being elected President. A few examples from Jefferson’s letters: Thomas Jefferson to G. K. van Hogendorp Oct. 13, 1785, and Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 19 June 1796. A few examples of Jefferson’s had the same attitude regarding the press after leaving the presidency: Thomas Jefferson to Walter Jones Jan. 2, 1814, Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe 1815 January 1, 1815, and Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe February 4, 1816. The example I cited was just one of many letters during Jefferson’s presidency. A few more: Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry Mar. 29, 1801, Thomas Jefferson to Barnabas Bidwell July 5, 1806, and Thomas Jefferson to John Norvell June 14, 1807.

    The acrimonious relationship with the press started after the Postal Service Act of 1792 and escalated each year. A key point was in July 4, 1792, National Gazette, five months after the Postal Service Act was signed into law on February 20, 1792.

    There is nothing positive regarding an adversarial relationship between the President and he press for the sake of being adversarial. There is a positive component for the press to call out the President when the President breaches his constitutional authority or legitimate policy making authority.

    Regarding your quote from Jefferson’s letter to Edward Carrington dated January 16, 1787, “I have the Jeffersonian point of view. Thomas Jefferson said he would rather have newspapers, with no government, than to have government, with no newspapers,” that was not a statement from a Founder regarding freedom of the press in the united states. The out of context quote is devoid of historical context and is often the victim of contextomy. Jefferson was the United States Minister to France from May 17, 1785, to September 26, 1789. Jefferson was in France when he wrote that letter to Carrington. The letter regarded European governments, not the united states. Jefferson was also experiencing the threshold of the French Revolution. The gist of the quote from the letter you quoted was not the press per se, but regarded an informed and knowledgeable people.

  9. #79
    Bizarroland Observer Thx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Well, if they don't do it for voter fraud perhaps they'll postpone the election until after the war...

    Thx

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