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Thread: Air Force faces 2000 pilot shortage

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Greenbean View Post
    mock all you want. if you know how to work a search engine you know im right, and you know why he wont answer
    He replaced the word commission with enlist. Big whoop. A commissioned officer also gets a contract. Most of the contracts I have seen have been 4/4 or 4/2 active, then reserve. If you eliminate the reserve part, you can make the important part, the active service longer. I am not sure how it would go if you lengthened it to more than 8 years, because folks want to be able to try something and have a way out or an end in sight, in case they don't like it.
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    New Member LT Greenbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    He replaced the word commission with enlist. Big whoop. A commissioned officer also gets a contract. Most of the contracts I have seen have been 4/4 or 4/2 active, then reserve. If you eliminate the reserve part, you can make the important part, the active service longer. I am not sure how it would go if you lengthened it to more than 8 years, because folks want to be able to try something and have a way out or an end in sight, in case they don't like it.
    anyone who has served knows that making that mistake is something that never happens...but you take it how you want to.

    what contracts are you referring to that are 4/4 or 4/2? air force or army? army is 8 year length usually being 3/5 or 4/4, majority being 3/5.

    also, how are you going to grant conditional release to your reservists when more and more recruits are chaptering out? the floodgates opened in the 90s when they allowed "stress cards" and open door policies. now any recruit that gets their feelings hurt can refuse to train, and be counseled/chaptered out and will be home before dinner

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Greenbean View Post
    transfers from reserves to active are really tough (assuming you are referring to enlisted. officer is much more difficult). the reserve unit grants the conditional release. then they need to secure a recruit from the pool. with more and more recruits chaptering out before basic/AIT or OSUT then ever before, it's depleting reservist populations and budgets
    Well, either way... there are reservists who are enlisted and reserve officers too. So you can have e to e, o to o, or sometimes e to o, and I have seen all three. (Look up mustang) They are doing some good long terms changes, such as the current blended retirement, which allows a person to get something for retirement, even if they don't put in a full 20 years. But for the problem in question... I think they also need to look at the climate. You can't throw money at everything. Eventually, folks run out of steam... the reason the Navy ran 4 ships into other ships or aground this year was because of overwork, not underpay.
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    New Member LT Greenbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Well, either way... there are reservists who are enlisted and reserve officers too. So you can have e to e, o to o, or sometimes e to o, and I have seen all three. (Look up mustang) They are doing some good long terms changes, such as the current blended retirement, which allows a person to get something for retirement, even if they don't put in a full 20 years. But for the problem in question... I think they also need to look at the climate. You can't throw money at everything. Eventually, folks run out of steam... the reason the Navy ran 4 ships into other ships or aground this year was because of overwork, not underpay.
    that doesnt address what i said. its numbers. with more reserve units losing recruits, and having to close an MOS, or place holds on conditional release to keep numbers, how are they going to go active? im asking what your plan is...

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    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Greenbean View Post
    anyone who has served knows that making that mistake is something that never happens...but you take it how you want to.

    what contracts are you referring to that are 4/4 or 4/2? air force or army? army is 8 year length usually being 3/5 or 4/4, majority being 3/5.

    also, how are you going to grant conditional release to your reservists when more and more recruits are chaptering out? the floodgates opened in the 90s when they allowed "stress cards" and open door policies. now any recruit that gets their feelings hurt can refuse to train, and be counseled/chaptered out and will be home before dinner
    I am in the Navy so most of my information comes from that experience. Also, while its true that people can get out in ways... you are very mistaken to paint it as a walk in the park like you have. I can pretty much assure you that folks who force an end to their enlistment will miss dinner, and will regret their choice pretty soon. And then years later, they'll talk about how they "served" during Desert Storm or something.

  6. #26
    New Member LT Greenbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    I am in the Navy so most of my information comes from that experience. Also, while its true that people can get out in ways... you are very mistaken to paint it as a walk in the park like you have. I can pretty much assure you that folks who force an end to their enlistment will miss dinner, and will regret their choice pretty soon. And then years later, they'll talk about how they "served" during Desert Storm or something.
    i said "recruits", not people in service. im talking about basic training. reserve commanders rely on open MOS slots to be filled on time, which is how they grant conditional release to someone going active. how can you increase that when you have an increase in recruits who are supposed to fill slots, chaptering out of basic/ait/OSUT in record numbers?

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    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Making the contract longer for pilots could have the effect of less people signing up for that job. Obviously, airlines pay better, and a pilot has less risk of being shot at, in the civilian world. Right now, they are having trouble recruiting. Forcing those in to stay longer won't help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Greenbean View Post
    that doesnt address what i said. its numbers. with more reserve units losing recruits, and having to close an MOS, or place holds on conditional release to keep numbers, how are they going to go active? im asking what your plan is...
    I'm not going to make a full fledged plan to fix the whole issue in our casual chat. I'm just going to suggest that you make it easier for folks to get in the active component, because many reservists want that. It would be one part of a broader campaign. If that means the reserves are undermanned, then that's less of an impact than if the active component is undermanned. The reason that its probably hard is that an active pension is more expensive than a reserves pension... so someone that's already got 15 years in, might only give them 5 more years and then retire. That's a more serious problem for someone with say 18 years in. On the other hand, they are also already trained and experienced.

    Bean counters will need to figure out where to draw the lines.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    I'm not going to make a full fledged plan to fix the whole issue in our casual chat. I'm just going to suggest that you make it easier for folks to get in the active component, because many reservists want that. It would be one part of a broader campaign. If that means the reserves are undermanned, then that's less of an impact than if the active component is undermanned. The reason that its probably hard is that an active pension is more expensive than a reserves pension... so someone that's already got 15 years in, might only give them 5 more years and then retire. That's a more serious problem for someone with say 18 years in. On the other hand, they are also already trained and experienced.

    Bean counters will need to figure out where to draw the lines.
    where did you get the info that most reservists want to go active? can you cite that? most reservists join because they have a civilian career or want to pay for school.

    you cant just take reservists and plant them in active numbers without a contingency plan for your missing MOSQ slots!

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Chief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT Greenbean View Post
    i said "recruits", not people in service. im talking about basic training. reserve commanders rely on open MOS slots to be filled on time, which is how they grant conditional release to someone going active. how can you increase that when you have an increase in recruits who are supposed to fill slots, chaptering out of basic/ait/OSUT in record numbers?
    It's not up to me. At some point the folks doing the manning will have to chose where they prefer to be short. It's not magic, it's just effective management.

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