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Thread: Opponents in LGBT case agree: It's not about wedding cake

  1. #11
    Established Member Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    So you would deny the rights of Christians in favor of homosexuals?

    That's ok in your opinion?
    What rights are being denied? The right to discriminate?

  2. #12
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    I think the case boils down to art versus commodities.

    If you look at the baker's work, it's clear that he is more of an artist than a provider of baked commodities.

    Artists have been picking and choosing their subject matter, messaging and unique expressions for a very long time.

    You cannot force any Artist to endorse any messaging that violates conscience or to create Art they don't feel like creating.
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  3. #13
    spɹɐʍʞɔɐq ʞɹɐp ǝɥʇ Puzzling Evidence's Avatar
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    I can't give rides to Christians -- I'm pagan and it's against everything I stand for.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and Blueneck

  4. #14
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    They were not denied a cake. They were offered a pre-made cake. The baker refused to design a cake using his artistic talent. Art is speech and this is also about compelled speech as well as right of conscience.

    The outcome will depend on whether the Supreme Court adheres to the Constitution or bad law and case law.
    According to court testimony, the customers were refused, and left the store before there was any discussion of the cake's design.
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  5. #15
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    I think the case boils down to art versus commodities.

    If you look at the baker's work, it's clear that he is more of an artist than a provider of baked commodities.

    Artists have been picking and choosing their subject matter, messaging and unique expressions for a very long time.

    You cannot force any Artist to endorse any messaging that violates conscience or to create Art they don't feel like creating.
    The customers did not request anything that the baker was not prepared to make - for other customers. There was no discussion of any customization.

  6. #16
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Its not a "complex question", its a two player zero-sum game theory.
    I understand your theory, but it is based on an underlying premise that is faulty - and therefore the theory is not properly applied to the situation.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter if the LGBT couple wins. The baker is still not going to make this cake.

  8. #18
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    It doesn't matter if the LGBT couple wins. The baker is still not going to make this cake.
    But going forward, gay people will be less likely to be turned away from businesses on account of their being gay. That's the real win.
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  9. #19
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    No, the loss is that many quality Christian businesses will no longer operate due to being forced to violate their belief system.

    And in the end that is what the LGBT community wants.

    The removal of Christianity from the world.

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    So you would deny the rights of Christians in favor of homosexuals?

    That's ok in your opinion?
    You get that Christians have no Constitutionally protected right to discriminate in their business practices based on their religious beliefs, right? No one is denying Christians the right to hold their beliefs in their personal lives. They just are not allowed to discriminate in their business practices, as a result. But, you already know this, which is what makes your posts dishonest. Such dishonesty is actually funny from followers of a religion that hold honesty as a major virtue.

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