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Thread: Opponents in LGBT case agree: It's not about wedding cake

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    The customers did not request anything that the baker was not prepared to make - for other customers. There was no discussion of any customization.
    The customers only had to look at the store and they would know that the proprietor was an artist.

    Seriously, can you demand that a Jewish artist do a tapestry with swastikas?

    Can you demand that a baker / artist do an elaborate cake for a an Inauguration reception for the guy he voted against?

    This baker does high end work. The commodities laws do not apply.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    That's because there's no such thing as a "gay" wedding cake. The couple didn't ask for a "gay" wedding cake. They asked for a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage.
    Art implies whatever the artist wants it to imply. That is the nature of Art.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    See, that argument works, if the cake is being created to put on display, and preserved for future generations to admire. In that case, you're right. It is a work of art. If it is being produced to be eaten, it's not a work of art - it's a fucking baked good! To my knowledge, wedding cakes are almost entirely produced to the latter purpose, not the former.
    So if a highly skilled woodworker with an established business and reputation was asked to do the set dressing for an Inauguration reception for the guy he voted against, he could be forced to because the set dressing is temporary? Sorry, but you guys have jumped the shark on this one. Cake is not a nutritious commodity. And an artist has the right to create the art that aligns with his own conscience. So does any business owner who produces anything that has messaging built into it. From custom T-Shirt designs to Advertising Copy to Custom Cakes, any business owner has the right to refuse to do custom work that violates conscience.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    And that is what makes it discrimination. You do not get to refuse to provide a service to someone, just because you don't like what they are doing.
    If it is custom work and is artistic enough to imply messaging or endorsement, of course you do. I disagree with this being a religious issue. It's a question of the rights of a business owner.

    If I run a T-shirt printing business, can I be forced to create a shirt that violates my politics? my team loyalties? my religion?

    The answer in all three cases is No.
    Last edited by kmiller1610; 5th December 2017 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    According to the linked article:

    Phillips still stoutly defends his 2012 rebuff of Mullins and Craig, saying he offered to sell them virtually any of his baked goods except a custom cake for their wedding.
    "I don't create custom designs for events or messages that conflict with my conscience," he said at the recent rally of his supporters. "I don't create cakes for Halloween, bachelor or bachelorette parties, and anti-American cakes. I've turned down a cake order for an anti-LGBT message."
    As long as the act of conscience is consistent, he's safe. So if he once did an anti-LGBT cake for a White Supremacist but refused to do so for a Black Man, he would be in violation of the law. If he refused to do one for anybody who requested it, he's safe.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    So you would deny the rights of Christians in favor of homosexuals?

    That's ok in your opinion?
    No one has the the fucking right to break the law and claim their religion says they can. Can I go and shoot a homosexual in the head and say that's my right, I'm a christian? This not to mention most gays are Christians, we have gay preachers ordained by christian religions, the largest protestant religion in the country accepts them but we have sick individuals that actually agree with what you post here? No christian is being denied their right to practice their religion simply because they are forced to follow laws just like everyone else.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Its not a "complex question", its a two player zero-sum game theory.

    The payoff for one will be equal to the loss of the other so if homosexuals win this "right" then the Christian loses their right.

    If the Christian wins their "right" the homosexual loses his.
    Christians never had the right to break the law before? The baker is not being denied his right to practice his religion because he has to follow established law in order to do it.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgressivePatriot View Post
    You would say that Christians have the right to discriminate just because they are Christians?
    That's what these idiots seem to believe. All you have to do is say I'm practicing my constitutional right to religion so I don't have to follow the law. I have interpreted my bible to say homosexuals are an abomination to the world and I was just doing my part by running over that gay person, what's the problem officer?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    I think the case boils down to art versus commodities.

    If you look at the baker's work, it's clear that he is more of an artist than a provider of baked commodities.

    Artists have been picking and choosing their subject matter, messaging and unique expressions for a very long time.

    You cannot force any Artist to endorse any messaging that violates conscience or to create Art they don't feel like creating.
    I think the case boils down to fucking homophobic bigots that hate gays and are looking for any way to persecute them. Kinda like your fucking stupid excuse here that the baker is some sort Rembrandt when he is just making a fucking cake. As I remember he was not even asked to put any messaging on it, not that that matters, "congratulations" or "happy wedding" is hardly a "unique" expression. No, there is no way anyone can agree with the baker without being a disgusting fucking bigot and homophobe. Your nonsensical babbling does not change that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    It doesn't matter if the LGBT couple wins. The baker is still not going to make this cake.
    congratulations on your meaningless and fucking juvenile reply, I knew you had it in you.

    And if he does win then anyone anywhere can ignore law and discriminate. If Alabama elects Moore I can put a sign in my window that says I don't serve anyone from alabama because child molestation is against my religion and they obviously support it. I can't tell if you voted for him but can't take that chance so I don't serve any of them. Money changers are bad too so if you work for a bank I won't serve you. Anyone who happens to be an atheist or doesn't believe in Jesus need not come in either, my religion says I cannot patronize heathens. The list is endless and every one of them is just as fucking stupid as this baker refusing service to a homosexual.

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