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Thread: President Trump to Recognize Jerusalem as Capital

  1. #61
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I know it's not complicated.

    Israel wants us to recognize Jerusalem regardless if it annoys the king of Jordan or not.

    And as I added in my last comment - President Trump ran on this and said he would do this if we was elected. So now he's doing it. That's how our Republic is suppose to work.

    If Israel truly was so worried about annoying the King of Jordon with this I'm sure all Netanyahu would have to do is pick up the phone and tell Trump not to do it. But he isn't - because the truth is Israel wants it.
    You're not comprehending what I am telling you. I just explained how Israel wants it. "The truth is" is something you say when you're pointing out something new.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Recognizing the way the world works does not make someone a chicken-hawk.
    A chicken-hawk is someone who loves to get us into wars they are too cowardly to fight. I do think you could easily qualify, what do you think? It doesn't seem to bother you that Trump is doing something that could lead to war for no good reason. Why are you so devoted to Trump in every way?
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly5 View Post
    A chicken-hawk is someone who loves to get us into wars they are too cowardly to fight. I do think you could easily qualify, what do you think?
    I think you're talking out your ass. As is usually the case.

    Go troll someone else.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 5th December 2017 at 09:14 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    You're not comprehending what I am telling you. I just explained how Israel wants it. "The truth is" is something you say when you're pointing out something new.

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    This is what you said to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Israel doesn't want to piss off the Jordanians, Egyptians and the Saudis. I don't think even Netanyahu wants to do that.....
    So tell me, if Israel and Netanyahu are so worried about pissing off the King of Jordon - why then does Israel and Netanyahu want Trump to recognize Jerusalem while knowing that it is against the King's wishes?
    Last edited by Jeremy; 5th December 2017 at 09:09 PM.

  5. #65
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    This is what you said to me:
    No, it isn't. Quote my entire post or we don't need to keep talking.

  6. #66
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    WASHINGTON — President Trump plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the American Embassy there, upending nearly seven decades of American foreign policy and potentially destroying his efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Mr. Trump’s decision, a high-risk foray into the thicket of the Middle East, was driven not by diplomatic calculations but by a campaign promise. He appealed to evangelicals and ardently pro-Israel American Jews in 2016 by vowing to move the embassy, and advisers said on Tuesday he was determined to make good on his word.

    Mr. Trump spent Tuesday morning explaining the policy change in telephone calls with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel; Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president; and to Arab leaders who warned him that it would disrupt the peace process, perhaps fatally, and could unleash a new wave of violence across the region.

    Late on Tuesday, Palestinian national and Islamic groups issued a joint statement calling for three days of “popular anger” to protest Mr. Trump’s move, beginning on Wednesday throughout the Palestinian territories and in demonstrations at United States embassies and consulates around the world.

    Fearing attacks, the American consulate in Jerusalem barred employees and family members from going to the Old City or the West Bank, while the State Department urged embassies around the world to tighten their security.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/w...move.html?_r=0
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No, it isn't. Quote my entire post or we don't need to keep talking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Israel doesn't want to piss off the Jordanians, Egyptians and the Saudis. I don't think even Netanyahu wants to do that, though he's on his way out anyway ... Israel cannot afford, on the domestic political front, to say "we're fine with not getting U.S. recognition of Israeli Jerusalem." But it certainly does not want to fundamentally destabilize its tenuous ties to the Arabs --- things are a little bit closer with Jordan --- in the name of seeing that happen.
    I thought the .... at the end would have made it clear that was not the entire quote. It was a shorter and relevant part of your quote that I wished to respond to.

    Your point was (as can easily be read there in your quote) that Israel and Netanyahu don't want to to piss off Jordon. My point was I don't think they really care when it comes to recognizing Jerusalem whether it pisses them off or not. I think that's fairly obvious in fact.

    And if you don't want to keep talking to me that is certainly your prerogative. It was you who engaged me after all. So if you would like for me to refrain from talking to you in the future you have only to say so and I'll happily oblige. Because unlike some others on this board - I do not engage other posters who have no interest in debating with me. That's what trolls do.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 5th December 2017 at 09:29 PM.

  8. #68
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I thought the .... would havemade it clear that was not the entire quite. It was the relevant part of the quote.

    Your point was that Israel and Netanyahu don't want to to piss off Jordon. My point was I don't think they really care when it comes to recognizing Jerusalem whether it pisses them off or not.
    They plainly don't. Israel has worked for decades to ensure a productive relationship with its Arab neighbors. They kept at it even when hardcore Zionists murdered the prime minister. If you don't know that, and refuse to study how that has occurred, then there's not much I can do for you.

    If you do want to learn something: The Arabs can't publicly accept an Israeli Jerusalem, at least not as its sole capital, which is what Israel wants. However, in the interest of stability and good relations, Israel has tacitly agreed over the years to not make a stink about it on other issues --- as long as the other states make no active efforts to undermine their administration of Jerusalem beyond supporting the Palestinian Authority.

    Even that has not exactly been a perfect rule, as Egypt helps Hamas govern Gaza, while Hamas would most definitely like to undermine Israel in general, not just their rule of Jerusalem.

    Even so, Israel has preferred to look the other way and maintain full diplomatic and trade relations with Egypt --- at times even coordinating with them against terrorists and the like. This is all carefully balanced. What's happened now is, the U.S. has come in and all on its own overturned the apple cart. Will Netanyahu celebrate that? Sure. Enthusiastically. He can't afford not to, and he probably is personally happy.

    But it represents a new, and very uncertain, chapter for the region. Meanwhile, peace seems increasingly impossible, and certainly is impossible so long as the Palestinians stand by their vow to have no dealings with us over this.

  9. #69
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    They plainly don't. Israel has worked for decades to ensure a productive relationship with its Arab neighbors. They kept at it even when hardcore Zionists murdered the prime minister. If you don't know that, and refuse to study how that has occurred, then there's not much I can do for you.

    If you do want to learn something: The Arabs can't publicly accept an Israeli Jerusalem, at least not as its sole capital, which is what Israel wants. However, in the interest of stability and good relations, Israel has tacitly agreed over the years to not make a stink about it on other issues --- as long as the other states make no active efforts to undermine their administration of Jerusalem beyond supporting the Palestinian Authority.

    Even that has not exactly been a perfect rule, as Egypt helps Hamas govern Gaza, while Hamas would most definitely like to undermine Israel in general, not just their rule of Jerusalem.

    Even so, Israel has preferred to look the other way and maintain full diplomatic and trade relations with Egypt --- at times even coordinating with them against terrorists and the like. This is all carefully balanced. What's happened now is, the U.S. has come in and all on its own overturned the apple cart. Will Netanyahu celebrate that? Sure. Enthusiastically. He can't afford not to, and he probably is personally happy.

    But it represents a new, and very uncertain, chapter for the region. Meanwhile, peace seems increasingly impossible, and certainly is impossible so long as the Palestinians stand by their vow to have no dealings with us over this.
    That constitutes a huge risk to our strategic and security goals in the selfsame region, and not even the White House can point to any credible gains from it. We support Israel. We have codified the notion that Jerusalem is their capital into our laws. We fund them pretty much more than anybody else.

    We will defend them if they are attacked in various ways. We have a warm relationship most of the time, the personal spats between the individuals Barack Obama and Benjamin Netanyahu notwithstanding, Trump's fighting with Theresa May, these things happen among friends.

    All that has not been done is, in the interest of preserving a status quo that doesn't hurt anybody, we have kept our embassy in Tel Aviv, which is where Israeli business and culture is centered in addition to it being a much safer and more stable place for our people to do their work.

    So what have we gained? Trump kept a campaign promise, same one most of his predecessors made. I mean, this is not what diplomacy is about.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    They plainly don't. Israel has worked for decades to ensure a productive relationship with its Arab neighbors. They kept at it even when hardcore Zionists murdered the prime minister. If you don't know that, and refuse to study how that has occurred, then there's not much I can do for you.

    If you do want to learn something: The Arabs can't publicly accept an Israeli Jerusalem, at least not as its sole capital, which is what Israel wants. However, in the interest of stability and good relations, Israel has tacitly agreed over the years to not make a stink about it on other issues --- as long as the other states make no active efforts to undermine their administration of Jerusalem beyond supporting the Palestinian Authority.

    Even that has not exactly been a perfect rule, as Egypt helps Hamas govern Gaza, while Hamas would most definitely like to undermine Israel in general, not just their rule of Jerusalem.

    Even so, Israel has preferred to look the other way and maintain full diplomatic and trade relations with Egypt --- at times even coordinating with them against terrorists and the like. This is all carefully balanced. What's happened now is, the U.S. has come in and all on its own overturned the apple cart. Will Netanyahu celebrate that? Sure. Enthusiastically. He can't afford not to, and he probably is personally happy.

    But it represents a new, and very uncertain, chapter for the region. Meanwhile, peace seems increasingly impossible, and certainly is impossible so long as the Palestinians stand by their vow to have no dealings with us over this.
    The problem with this argument is it's based on a false premise because there is nothing preventing Arabs from publicly accepting an Israeli Jerusalem, unless of course you mean their stubborn pride or religious dogma neither of which I am prepared to entertain at the expense of a worthy ally.

    These countries attacked Israel and lost and it's high time they got over it already and accepted it. So if you expect me to learn something by pandering to their delusions of grandeur or sucking up to their political needs I am sorry to disappoint you. Because as far as I'm concerned - if Israel wants us to recognize Jerusalem (and they clearly do) it's the very least we can do. I could care less if it pisses off the Islamist or causes the fragile mind of some terrorist to explode in anger. If you allow these people to intimidate us or Israel or the world in general and shape foreign policy with their threats then we have already lost.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 5th December 2017 at 09:54 PM.

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