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Thread: Should federal agents be actively partisan?

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    Should federal agents be actively partisan?

    The mere hint of politicizing government agencies under Richard Nixon was enough to get him impeached, and he apparently got that message and resigned first. But the Obama administration appears to have blatantly weaponized the "justice department" and the FBI, not to mention the IRS. Will government agencies enforce political orthodoxy and conformity to the aims of the democrat party in violation of tradition and law? Are we living in a police state now?
    Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud' | Fox News

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    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    By and large the FBI is not "political"

    No matter how much you want to make a stink about one article.

    Your talking about over 35,000 FBI agents here, many who put their life on the line every day

    You should be respecting them for doing their jobs and to a very large degree, keeping us safe.

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    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    The mere hint of politicizing government agencies under Richard Nixon was enough to get him impeached, and he apparently got that message and resigned first. But the Obama administration appears to have blatantly weaponized the "justice department" and the FBI, not to mention the IRS. Will government agencies enforce political orthodoxy and conformity to the aims of the democrat party in violation of tradition and law? Are we living in a police state now?
    Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud' | Fox News
    The Obama administration "weaponized" the justice department HOW exactly? Just because FOX News says they did, does not mean they did. Perhaps you can give some examples that make the Obama DOJ any more "weaponized" politicized than the current DOJ?

    It would appear others see it the other way. Where does the truth lie and why? Certainly if one makes such an allegation they should be able to articulate why.
    Civil Rights Groups Warn Against Return To Bush-Era Politicization Of DOJ Hiring ? Talking Points Memo

    One might think that Bill Clinton would have fired Ken Starr or Obama would have fired James Comey for INVESTIGATING potential crimes about themselves or people politically related to them, yet Trump, so far, is the only one of the three to actually fire someone investigating people politically related to them. If he fires Mueller, then who would you suggest is acting politically, when it comes to JUSTICE?

    How is it Trump is "protected" by his supporters, no less than Trump (and his supporters) keep trying to insist that Clinton was protected?

    Imagine if Hillary Clinton were in the White House doing half the things Trump does on a daily basis, with regard to lying and trying to discredit the free press, contradicting and denying her own words and firing James Comey for investigating her personal server.

    Trump's reason for firing Comey was what, again? Something NON-political?

    Why Did Trump Fire Comey? - FactCheck.org



    How can anyone suggest Trump is NOT political?

    See what he thought of Hillary Clinton, BEFORE he became her political opponent and isn't justice something that is determined by impartial, not POLTICAL investigations and what is found in investigations, not on the OPINION of one person, ESPECIALLY the opinion of one's political opponent? If that were true, Democrats could have just as easily been justified, perhaps even more so, in chanting "lock him (Donald Trump) up" during their convention.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Obeu_VYY4

    Trump is a politician's politician, if one defines, as he does, people who will say anything their particular audience at any one time, wants to hear. Trump will call you great one minute, then tweet you in the back the next. He's flip flopped how many times on whether someone is "one of the greatest", to "the worst"? To someone that needed to be fired (by him) to someone (the same person) that is being treated "unfairly"?

    Is Trump judge, jury and executioner all wrapped into one? Why should anyone believe the angle that Hillary Clinton is absolutely guilty of something and getting away with murder, while someone like Flynn, is being treated unfairly and having his life ruined, according to Trump? Hillary and her husband have been investigated up, down and all around how many times, as compared to Trump and his people? Yet, how is it the Clinton's, only combined millionaires, as opposed to Trump's billionaire status on his own, wield the power some try to suggest they do? Neither of them are in any position to make political decisions or grant any political favors, yet Trump is.

    Perhaps the premise is, "look over there, at what they're doing, don't look this way" as a means to keep the focus off of himself, yet, he chose to run for the job that he used media attention to gain, yet disdains their attention and focus on his position, when it is less than flattering and exposes a side of him that even he realizes is not flattering or exposes deeds by him he knows do NOT show him as someone most people would trust or want as President. His response to that was to challenge his base to support him, regardless of what he might do, by saying something to that effect, in jest. So far, there is a core that has not flinched, no matter what he has done and even as they, as with this issue would hang anyone else high, for doing the same.

    BTW, Comey's background would have him leaning MORE toward republican and conservativism, than someone who would protect Clinton. Remember, he was the best friend of "conservatives" while merely investigating HRC, became a pariah to the same when issuing his summary that said nothing criminal was found that would amount to bringing a criminal indictment and charges.....He then became their best friend by opening up the investigation due to Wiener's wiener and soon returned to pariah status, when the reopening was said to change nothing, with regard to recommendations for bringing charges on HRC actions.

    For all anyone really knows, the Mueller investigation, could end the same way, with no charges beyond those already made. Should Trump then be haunted the rest of what life he would have left, by constant allegations that he should be locked up and that he was politically "protected" and got off scott free? Trump's worst enemy, seems to be himself. He can't leave well enough alone and that lack of discipline will likely hang him by his own petard one day, before too long, considering the position he is in and the "look over there, not at me" strategy gets old after a while and everyone begins to wonder, when everyone else has paid a price for their actions that DJ Trump still has not paid for his.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 6th December 2017 at 06:45 AM.
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    The Mueller team is incredibly partisan. I have never seen anything like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    The mere hint of politicizing government agencies under Richard Nixon was enough to get him impeached, and he apparently got that message and resigned first. But the Obama administration appears to have blatantly weaponized the "justice department" and the FBI, not to mention the IRS. Will government agencies enforce political orthodoxy and conformity to the aims of the democrat party in violation of tradition and law? Are we living in a police state now?
    Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud' | Fox News
    I believe it's fairly evident at this point that this silly Russian Collusion investigation is nothing more than a farce - a manufactured excuse to go on a partisan witch hunt to try and dig up dirt on the President. Not that this is unusual for Washington or anything - and anyone who tells you a department run by partisans and appointed by partisans is somehow going to be non-partisan is either trying to fool you or themselves.

    That being said - it will be difficult for Mueller to simply invent crimes no matter how partisan or bias he is (and I believe him to be plenty of both). So I don't really have that big of an issue with the investigation so long as the President doesn't let it distract him from doing his job and implementing the agenda his supporters voted for.

    But to answer your question: no - in a perfect world they should not be partisan. But as we are both no doubt aware - we don't live in a perfect world.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 5th December 2017 at 11:57 PM.

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    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    I attended a lecture, here in BC, by two FBI folks. An agent and an analyst. They described their training and the room was practically salivating. The resources and programs and opportunities they described was... like Gucci to our KMart.

    Then the agent started talking about integrity. Her theme was “integrity” and she kept going on and on about how you have to argue your opinion. Push it. Persuade others. Make sure your voice gets heard and your work appears to offer the solutions. Integrity.

    But none of this stuff she was talking about was “integrity”. In fact it was the opposite of integrity. Insisting you’re right with all your might does NOT mean integrity. BEING right is integrity. Totally opposite meaning.

    The room got really quiet and uncomfortable and, too her credit, she addressed it. “I feel like Ive lost you”. Someone braver than me in the course spoke up. “Integrity means actually trying to find the truth, not fighting to be the one who is heard”.

    Agent: “Well it’s the strongest, most persuasive voice that will be heard and acted on”

    The attendees: “that’s the PROBLEM. Integrity means NOT doing that. What you’re describing LACKS integrity. It’s sonething to avoid.”

    I swear to God, her answer, “well you guys wouldn’t make it very far in the FBI”

    To which I replied silently in my head, “well you guys wouldn’t make it anywhere in a Canadian Court”

    It was weird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I attended a lecture, here in BC, by two FBI folks. An agent and an analyst. They described their training and the room was practically salivating. The resources and programs and opportunities they described was... like Gucci to our KMart.

    Then the agent started talking about integrity. Her theme was “integrity” and she kept going on and on about how you have to argue your opinion. Push it. Persuade others. Make sure your voice gets heard and your work appears to offer the solutions. Integrity.

    But none of this stuff she was talking about was “integrity”. In fact it was the opposite of integrity. Insisting you’re right with all your might does NOT mean integrity. BEING right is integrity. Totally opposite meaning.

    The room got really quiet and uncomfortable and, too her credit, she addressed it. “I feel like Ive lost you”. Someone braver than me in the course spoke up. “Integrity means actually trying to find the truth, not fighting to be the one who is heard”.

    Agent: “Well it’s the strongest, most persuasive voice that will be heard and acted on”

    The attendees: “that’s the PROBLEM. Integrity means NOT doing that. What you’re describing LACKS integrity. It’s sonething to avoid.”

    I swear to God, her answer, “well you guys wouldn’t make it very far in the FBI”

    To which I replied silently in my head, “well you guys wouldn’t make it anywhere in a Canadian Court”

    It was weird.
    The FBI lady was kinda right.

    Having integrity doesn't mean you are trying to find the truth. It means that you already know the truth and that you aren't afraid to stand up for it - hence letting your voice be the strongest and most heard.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 6th December 2017 at 12:45 AM.
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    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    The mere hint of politicizing government agencies under Richard Nixon was enough to get him impeached, and he apparently got that message and resigned first.
    Bullshit. Richard Nixon resigned only because congressional Republicans assured him that he would be successfully impeached for the crimes that he had committed. Nixon's crimes had nothing whatsoever to do with "politicizing government agencies". This is a pathetic attempt to construct a bullshit straw-man.

    Every American citizen has the right to support the political party of their choice, no matter what they do for a living. If a government employee in a sensitive position crosses a line in their engagement in partisan politics, then that will be dealt with internally. We don't deal with it by insisting that anyone who serves in the military or in law enforcement must be a mindless automaton bereft of holding any political opinion or preference whatsoever.

    This is obviously a poorly constructed attack on the investigation of the Trump administration's criminal behavior. It doesn't hold water. At best, it serves as a pacifier for Trump sycophants who see the walls closing in on their Dear Leader.
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    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    The mere hint of politicizing government agencies under Richard Nixon was enough to get him impeached, and he apparently got that message and resigned first. But the Obama administration appears to have blatantly weaponized the "justice department" and the FBI, not to mention the IRS. Will government agencies enforce political orthodoxy and conformity to the aims of the democrat party in violation of tradition and law? Are we living in a police state now?
    Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud' | Fox News
    Not in a political case. I would oppose activlly partisan in support or opposition to Hillary if she were being investigated.

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    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    2 more Mueller counsel members have been found to be compromised with political Bias.
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