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Thread: Alternate Juror on Steinle Murder Trial

  1. #41
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    I read it and I still feel the same, regardless if it were a relative of mine. He was an adult and should take responsibility for his actions. Reading that article just made me sick to my stomach...because that could happen to anyone, especially now.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Everyone uses the defense.."I didn't know any better" or "I didn't mean it"
    Sometimes people believe them, sometimes they don't.
    IMO, when a person picks up a gun, which they said they found, picks it up, and kills someone...there should be consequences.
    Then you should advocate for a change in the law. Make it a felony to pick up a gun--that might present some other problems, though.
    Maybe in the future, no one will pick up a gun they know nothing about.
    Yep. It's much smarter to just leave it there so it can be picked up by some child or criminal.
    I am assuming the gun was a Glock or Beretta, since it belonged to someone in law enforcement. With a semi auto, you still have to pull the trigger. I have a hard time believing that gun discharged by accident 3 times.
    I'm not questioning your judgment, but neither of us heard the evidence that the jury heard. The jury came to a different conclusion--they do that sometimes.
    The first time would startle someone big time...even if they are experienced. A jury is made up of human beings and even tho they go through a selection process, they still can manipulate their interview...just like they do when they don't want to sit on a jury.
    So it's your contention that out of dozens or hundreds of prospective jurors, 12 bad actors managed to game their way on to this jury? Seems like a stretch....
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I read it and I still feel the same, regardless if it were a relative of mine. He was an adult and should take responsibility for his actions. Reading that article just made me sick to my stomach...because that could happen to anyone, especially now.
    You're right, it could happen to anyone. But don't be mad at the jury. Be mad at the gun laws in this country that have brought about the proliferation of firearms.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Sometimes people believe them, sometimes they don't. Then you should advocate for a change in the law. Make it a felony to pick up a gun--that might present some other problems, though. Yep. It's much smarter to just leave it there so it can be picked up by some child or criminal. I'm not questioning your judgment, but neither of us heard the evidence that the jury heard. The jury came to a different conclusion--they do that sometimes. So it's your contention that out of dozens or hundreds of prospective jurors, 12 bad actors managed to game their way on to this jury? Seems like a stretch....
    A reasonable adult would stay with the gun until the cops arrived to retrieve it. They don't pick it up to shoot at sea lions or whatever explanation. He changed his story twice. It is a waste of time to advocate for any gun laws...we don't follow the ones we have and in cases of accidents, they usually walk. My question, do we want any movement on gun deaths? We can't pick and choose who has consequences or not.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Even if a person was not speeding, you still are responsible for controlling your car.
    If I got into a car that wasn't my own and drove away, that alone would be a crime. Picking up a gun is not equivalent. To "pick up" a car, you have to willfully operate it. Your analogy doesn't doesn't hold.
    I believe this was a accident...most likely, BUT there should be consequences if a person dies or is disabled, accident or not.
    To sustain a charge of involuntary manslaughter, the law requires that a defendant engage in some sort of conduct that is inherently dangerous. Picking up a gun in and of itself isn't dangerous.
    Would you pick up a gun that you knew nothing about or who it belonged or would you call the police and tell them you found a gun on the pier?
    Probably not, but then I'm not experienced with firearms and have some apprehension about them. I'm also not an illegal immigrant, who would rather naturally have some fear of calling the police.
    Would you shoot at sea lions on a public pier?
    I think we decided that we didn't know if this was part of the court testimony.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    You're right, it could happen to anyone. But don't be mad at the jury. Be mad at the gun laws in this country that have brought about the proliferation of firearms.
    The jury had a chance to apply gun laws. It is illegal to discharge a gun in public and it is illegal to kill a innocent person, accident or not. We are allowing too many of these accidents to slip by. It is not only this case. I am scared of how our justice system works...it is a joke.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    The jury had a chance to apply gun laws. It is illegal to discharge a gun in public and it is illegal to kill a innocent person, accident or not. We are allowing too many of these accidents to slip by. It is not only this case. I am scared of how our justice system works...it is a joke.
    The author of the piece disagrees.

    The jury did convict Garcia Zarate of the separate charge of illegal possession of a firearm, which indicates that the members felt it to be an unreasonable conclusion that he didn’t know he was holding a gun. He was in the seat where he claims he found it for about 20 minutes prior to the shooting, and he made some statements during interrogation that seemed to indicate that he had known what the item was. Without the benefit of being able to re-examine the evidence during deliberation, I’m not sure that I would consider that evidence to constitute proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but knowing these jurors, I would trust them to have made an accurate judgment if the manslaughter charge had survived the first requirement.

    I have come away from this experience with a strong sense of respect for the jurors and their objective handling of a sensitive case under the national spotlight. I hope that I would have acted with the same level of maturity.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    I read it and I still feel the same, regardless if it were a relative of mine. He was an adult and should take responsibility for his actions. Reading that article just made me sick to my stomach...because that could happen to anyone, especially now.
    So what change would you make to the law in order to bring about the legal situation you prefer? Make it illegal to pick up a gun you find? Make anyone who takes any action, intentional or not, legally responsible for whatever happens as a result of that action? I see some serious problems with either of those possible laws. The law makes us responsible for things that we intend to do and for the reasonably foreseeable results of our actions.

    The jury, for whatever reason, unanimously agreed that he didn't intend to fire the weapon. I can't say why, but determining the intentions of defendants is what juries do. I think George Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon Martin against the advice of police and emboldened by his possession of a firearm, and thus Zimmerman created the situation in which Martin attacked him, which I see as a reasonable response...but the jury disagreed with me. It happens.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    Just as I suspected, the jury followed the law and got the verdict right. The prosecution tried to overreach.





    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...t-botch-216016
    Considering he was a felon in possession of a fire arm (a crime) while in the act that caused Steinle's death then I don't see how it can't be manslaughter. So basically this juror defeats their own argument with a comical attempt at logic by describing this isn't manslaughter because exactly what happened supposedly didn't happen.

    So this jury either ignored the law to make a political statement or they are weak-minded fools who allowed the defense attorney to manipulate them. Neither possibility is a good one.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    If I got into a car that wasn't my own and drove away, that alone would be a crime. Picking up a gun is not equivalent. To "pick up" a car, you have to willfully operate it. Your analogy doesn't doesn't hold. To sustain a charge of involuntary manslaughter, the law requires that a defendant engage in some sort of conduct that is inherently dangerous. Picking up a gun in and of itself isn't dangerous. Probably not, but then I'm not experienced with firearms and have some apprehension about them. I'm also not an illegal immigrant, who would rather naturally have some fear of calling the police. I think we decided that we didn't know if this was part of the court testimony.
    It is a perfect analogy. Say it was your car and you killed a kid...you are looking at involuntary manslaughter, no matter how much you cry in court. Guns always gets a pass. As far as being an illegal, he knew that as well and had been deported. This would be a weak defense, IMO. I have a little experience with guns and own a 9mm, and picking up a gun, where you do not know if a bullet is in the chamber...it is dangerous, especially if it has a soft trigger. From where I stand, I just want to be able to walk around without the fear of getting shot...this is not acceptable to me at all, especially if justice was not served. This case has made the national news, everyone knows about it...and everyone knows that he basically walked on a manslaughter charge for whatever reason. It does not send a good message.

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