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Thread: Fusion GPS must comply with subpoena

  1. #1
    Under Protest excalibur's Avatar
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    Fusion GPS must comply with subpoena

    They lost, badly lost, in court.


    On Thursday, a U.S. District Judge denied Fusion GPS’s effort to keep the House committee from bank records it sought. Judge Richard Leon, who took over the case after the previous judge Tanya Chutkan recused herself midway over unspecified conflicts, smacked down all four grounds by which Fusion GPS tried to block the congressional subpoena. That subpoena included requests for records of payments from Fusion GPS to journalists who have covered the Russian dossier story.

    Fusion said the request for records lacked a valid legislative purpose, were overbroad and irrelevant, violated First Amendment rights to speech and association, and violated financial privacy laws. The judge disagreed on each count.
    https://thefederalist.com/2018/01/05...ide-info-from-

    Link to opinion of the court:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/3684...ary-Injunction
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    Hillary Clinton $ > Fusion GPS $ > Christopher Steele (Fake Dossier) $ > Russians

    The collusion and money trail is there. No wonder Fusion GPS fought so hard to keep their financial records sealed.

    If the FISA court is shown to have used that dossier to justify the unmaskings, Obama's team is in for a deserved world of shit.
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    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    I'm trying my hardest and I still don't follow the narrative that Fusion GPS represents "real Russia collusion."

    Steele is a British agent (no longer with MI-6, but all involved parties seem to agree that men like him never really leave) who virtually the entire U.S. intelligence community regarded as a foremost expert on Russia who retained sources in Russia --- WITHOUT any involvement from the Kremlin --- from his days as a spy. The extent of his interaction with the Russian government seems to have been in the capacity as an official-cover agent.

    That is, he operated in Russia with the Kremlin's blessing, just as many Russian spies have operated here and in the UK with permission, under the auspices of some diplomatic title or other AND with full diplomatic immunity because A) this system of reciprocity allows espionage to take place for both parties, so it is in their best interest and B) if you know who at least some of the opposition's spies are, you can track them and perhaps manipulate them into revealing spies the opposition DOESN'T want you to know about. Most importantly, any traitors or double agents in your own ranks.

    I really have read a whole lot about this now, and it seems like there is a concerted effort to conflate Steele's authorized spycraft in Russia with what we would consider a conspiracy against the United States. This is a blatant argument from ignorance and should be discarded.

    Now I think there is a strong possibility that the Clinton campaign, at some level, knowingly employed Steele, as an independent contractor, for the express purpose of manifesting dirt on Trump (of which there is a vast abundance here there and beyond). While that technically runs afoul of election rules against working with foreigners, Steele, being a veteran of a friendly intelligence service, has no comparison to current agents of a hostile regime, such as Natalya Veselnitskaya. Any suggestion that he does is simply a red herring and that kind of argument should be discarded.

    In order to make Steele a real problem for Democrats, except in Republican fever dream circles, it would have to be demonstrated that A) Steele remains an active agent of a foreign government, B) The Clinton campaign knew that at the time he was working for them (via Fusion GPS), C) The foreign government he works for has ill intent for the U.S., and D) The foreign government knew what he was about and arranged for him to be doing those things in order to undermine the U.S. or advance Hillary Clinton for that purpose.

    We are nowhere near any of that based on everything I have seen.
    Last edited by Singularity; 5th January 2018 at 11:52 PM.

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    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    To sum up, the House can subpoena whoever it wants and those people should comply. That's the long and the short of the judge's ruling (I skimmed it) unless specific abusive intent can be demonstrated. Fusion could not, so they lost. That does not, in any way, demonstrate that the Republican case against Fusion (such as it even coherently exists) is validated. It merely shows that Fusion tried to evade a subpoena, a goodly federal judge (who happens to be a W. Bush appointee, but is also a Harvard Law graduate with honors) told them to quit fucking around, and now we get to find out if the House will do something with that subpoena or if it was all a waste of time.

    Given the track record of House investigative committees for the last oh... forever... I lean toward the latter.

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    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    I just did a broad social media search of chatter about Fusion GPS and it is, overwhelmingly, dominated by obscure, avowed pro-Trump commentators such as The Federalist and "Thomas Paine," a supposedly FBI-knowledgeable troll who has reportedly given Jim Comey specifically a lot of grief in the past. Very few other opinion shapers are even talking about it, never mind covering it. And this is what Trump's defenders in Congress are hanging their hat on?
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    I could care less about any of this except the collusion between members of the media and an advocacy group of any kind. I expect bad behavior from politicians. I do not expect the press to be openly trying to influence elections with false, carefully timed and propagandist triffle. It's MUCH worse than collusion with Russians, lying to committees and doing the kinds of things politicians have always done. The press is not supposed to take sides and act like the scum they are covering.

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    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    I could care less about any of this except the collusion between members of the media and an advocacy group of any kind. I expect bad behavior from politicians. I do not expect the press to be openly trying to influence elections with false, carefully timed and propagandist triffle. It's MUCH worse than collusion with Russians, lying to committees and doing the kinds of things politicians have always done. The press is not supposed to take sides and act like the scum they are covering.
    Yeah no, that's simply not correct. "The press" is not a monolithic institution for one --- individual agencies and reporters are responsible for their own actions. And, whether you want to admit it or not, Russian agents hacked the DNC and, reportedly, the RNC as well. Consciously accepting such information, direct from the hackers or via an identified intermediary, is a violation in principle of our national security. If anyone in the Trump campaign had knowledge of any stage of the hacking before it occurred or supplied information to aid that effort, even if they somehow did not know it was the Russians doing it, that's conspiracy and it will send those involved to prison for a significant time. Conversely anyone can accept money to write a story or spin a narrative --- that's the way of the political world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Yeah no, that's simply not correct. "The press" is not a monolithic institution for one --- individual agencies and reporters are responsible for their own actions. And, whether you want to admit it or not, Russian agents hacked the DNC and, reportedly, the RNC as well. Consciously accepting such information, direct from the hackers or via an identified intermediary, is a violation in principle of our national security. If anyone in the Trump campaign had knowledge of any stage of the hacking before it occurred or supplied information to aid that effort, even if they somehow did not know it was the Russians doing it, that's conspiracy and it will send those involved to prison for a significant time. Conversely anyone can accept money to write a story or spin a narrative --- that's the way of the political world.
    What I care about is not subject your assessment of its correctness. It does not matter how many members of the press are colluding with politicians and advocacy groups (though I suspect it's not insignificant). It's a fundamental violation of journalistic ethics. It's my campaign. I think it's vitally important that it be confronted.

    This investigation could reveal a money trail that connects politicians to advocacy groups to members of the press. That's a really big deal, TO ME. The Russians have been trying to corrupt elections for a hundred years. Apparently Obama didn't care to stop them and the press has decided to blame a private citizen running for office.

    Can anyone see the problem with this?
    Last edited by kmiller1610; 6th January 2018 at 01:26 AM.
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    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Hillary Clinton $ > Fusion GPS $ > Christopher Steele (Fake Dossier) $ > Russians

    The collusion and money trail is there. No wonder Fusion GPS fought so hard to keep their financial records sealed.

    If the FISA court is shown to have used that dossier to justify the unmaskings, Obama's team is in for a deserved world of shit.
    So far this OP states the inquiry is into FGPS' believed payments to journalists. That is light years away from your little criminality schematic.

    Bring it back down to reality there Crush.

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    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    What I care about is not subject your assessment of its correctness. It does not matter how many members of the press are colluding with politicians and advocacy groups (though I suspect it's not insignificant). It's a fundamental violation of journalistic ethics. It's my campaign. I think it's vitally important that it be confronted.

    This investigation could reveal a money trail that connects politicians to advocacy groups to members of the press. That's a really big deal, TO ME. The Russians have been trying to corrupt elections for a hundred years. Apparently Obama didn't care to stop them and the press has decided to blame a private citizen running for office.

    Can anyone see the problem with this?
    Seems to me many can see this as intimidation and fishing when a subpoena issued without and real specific criminal act disclosed.

    What is the specific crime believed to have been committed by FusionGPS? You may not be able to answer that...I wonder if this is more a fishing expedition allowed by the court.

    A little bit of judicial intimidation.
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