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Thread: What has changed in the last 40 years that makes someone want to shoot up a school?

  1. #31
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Sad, but true, their are high school seniors graduating this year who have never known a time the U.S. was not at war.
    Yeah. I hadn't thought about it that way before. Both my kids. This is there normal.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    Yet violent crime has been steadily decreasing the last 30 years...
    WE are talking specifically about firearm murders/assaults.
    Punching someone in the face and grabbing their purse would be categorized as a "violent crime."
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  3. #33
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofball View Post
    while he is at it, he can link to these “military grade weapons”.

    The ar-15 isn’t used by the military.
    no one fucking said it was.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    no one fucking said it was.
    Well then, explain what “military grade weapons”are so easy to get these days.


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    How many times are we going to here the old story about the kids in school showing up with their shotgun in the back window rack because they were "going hunting after school?" Back then almost NO ONE was fucking stupid enough to keep that firearm loaded like that, may well have been shells in the glove box.


    Dunno. How many times do you want to hear it?

  7. #37
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    I have seen the following suggestions made in this thread. Here are my responses to those:

    Violent video games, music, movies, &c. No. Not only do plenty of other countries utilize such games, but even before video games we had plenty of play violence in society.

    Both parents working. (Corrollaries: discipline coming from daycare and not parents, other "loss of the family unit.) No. This has never been all that unusual in American society, despite the pictures we draw of some kind of "golden age." Standard family unit composition has actually varied across history and across cultures, all depending on particular circumstances. In no case has anyone ever been able to draw a direct line from "the family unit doesn't [look like something in particular]" to "mass murder," because there is simply no logical way to do it.

    Schools cannot discipline kids. No. If anything, this is a net reduction in social violence. When one experiences violence, one is more likely to use it.

    U.S. constantly at war. I do not buy this one, either (but see next entry). Various countries in the past have been constantly at war for long periods of time, yet without an "epidemic" of mass murders.

    Culture of belligerence, selfishness and general militancy. This has something to it, though not sufficient in itself. The U.S. has always been built on a "greed is good" premise to some degree, and since WWII has become a country of the military-industrial complex (of which we were warned by a General / President) that includes belligerence toward "the enemy" (whoever that may be conceived to be), which leads to a more generally militant attitude looking both outward toward other countries and inward toward our neighbors. Nevertheless, that condition existed for decades after the end of WWII without a significant number of mass murders, so either a slow build-up is contributory but not primarily responsible, or it is not really the issue at all.

    Lack of mandatory military service. I doubt there is much relevance here, or much to support it. Long periods of non-conscription and non-war does not seem to correlate in any demonstrable way with mass murders.

    Infamy. This certainly seems to be a reason stated by some mass murderers. This is relatively easily enough fixed, though, that I think it might be little more than a contributing factor, more an afterthought than anything else.

    Psychotropic drugs. This might pose a chicken-egg problem: is the drug responsible, or the underlying mental illness the drug is prescribed to treat? It seems that mass shooters have more tended to be mentally ill and off their medications when committing mass murders, than committing the crimes because of the drugs. Then again, it is difficult to believe that mental illness has suddenly become more prevalent in the last few decades, or that it is not fundamentally the same in other countries as well. Something else is different.

    Proliferation of guns. This is certainly a distinction between the U.S. and other first-world nations. It is hard to be a mass murderer without weapons capable of murdering many people in a few minutes. Mass murders by axe or knife (for example) have always been relatively rare, compared to the almost regular mass shootings we are seeing. However, these have always been possible, even with revolvers; it is easier with semi-automatic weapons, but no so much as to suggest that this is the reason for the increase in the behavior.

    I think that covers what has been presented so far in this thread. I do not have something new to add, because I think it is a combination of factors, possibly of those listed above, that interact in a particularly volatile way, and I think it is the combinations we have to look at rather than looking for an easy answer.

  8. #38
    Shitposting Rank 4 Missle Command Champion johnflesh's Avatar
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    I don't buy the video game argument. There is nothing but emotions as evidence to back up that claim. The actual evidence suggests that they aren't great things, but aren't causing shootings.
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  9. #39
    Shitposting Rank 4 Missle Command Champion johnflesh's Avatar
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    I don't normally sit around thinking about this type of stuff, but the only consistency between all shooters who've spoken about their crimes is attention/infamy that comes from sort of neglect early on. Either a common neglect or abuse, or traumatic event (the Parkland's mother died in Nov.) ---- or a supposed victimhood of neglect or abuse but really they are just baby bitches who can't function in our society for whatever reason... I'm not a doctor.
    Last edited by johnflesh; 7th March 2018 at 04:00 PM. Reason: clarity
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  10. #40
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnflesh View Post
    I don't normally sit around thinking about this type of stuff, but the only consistency between all shooters who've spoken about their crimes is attention/infamy that comes from sort of neglect early on. Either a common neglect or abuse, or traumatic event (the Parkland's mother died in Nov.) ---- or a supposed victimhood of neglect or abuse....
    I cannot buy this, either, since these things have always happened in society without mass murders.
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