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Thread: NRA files lawsuit over Florida gun control law

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    The NRA is a marketing entity.. their main function is to ensure the profits and market share of the gun industry that they represent. Unfortunately some people still buy into the NRA's "freedom vs tyranny" advertising campaign.

    What the NRA does is called "Fear Appeal" in the advertising industry..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_appeal
    Fear appeal is a term used in psychology, sociology and marketing. It generally describes a strategy for motivating people to take a particular action, endorse a particular policy, or buy a particular product, by arousing fear. A well-known example in television advertising was a commercial employing the musical jingle: "Never pick up a stranger, pick up Prestone anti-freeze." This was accompanied by images of shadowy strangers (hitchhikers) who would presumably do one harm if picked up. The commercial's main appeal was not to the positive features of Prestone anti-freeze, but to the fear of what a "strange" brand might do.

    A fear appeal is a persuasive message that attempts to arouse fear in order to divert behavior through the threat of impending danger or harm. It presents a risk, presents the vulnerability to the risk, and then may, or may not suggest a form of protective action.
    All wrong, all untrue. The NRA is a civil rights advocacy organization. They defend the 2nd amendment, part of the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution. That's what they do. They don't sell guns. They aren't the National Shooting Sports foundation. They aren't the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute. Those organizations are the ones you seem to be confusing with the NRA.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    All wrong, all untrue. The NRA is a civil rights advocacy organization. They defend the 2nd amendment, part of the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution. That's what they do. They don't sell guns. They aren't the National Shooting Sports foundation. They aren't the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute. Those organizations are the ones you seem to be confusing with the NRA.
    LOL - they are the gun manufacturer's lobby group.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Throttle View Post
    Is there anyone here who believes this law would have prevented Cruz from doing what he did? If he couldn't acquire a gun til 21, which isn't certain, would he have been any more right in the mind at that point or just as dangerous?
    Yes all evidence suggests that if he was prevented from getting that gun the shooting never would have happened.
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  4. #24
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
    NRA files lawsuit over Florida gun control law | WPEC

    TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP)
    The National Rifle Association has filed a federal lawsuit over gun control legislation Florida Gov. Rick Scott has signed, saying it violates the Second Amendment by raising the age to buy guns from 18 to 21. The lawsuit came just hours after Gov. Scott, a Republican, signed the compromise bill Friday afternoon.

    Lawyers for the NRA want a federal judge to block the new age restriction from taking effect.

    ..snip..


    Ofcourse they did.. typical of those God damned nra gun pushers wanting to protect their gun profits and market share by sending their lawyers to Florida to tell us how we should run our state.
    They won't get an injunction. The need/irreversible harm that must be shown to enjoin the government is missing.

    A gun is not the logical equivalent of a vaccine for Ebola, e.g., such that under 21 year olds exposed to gun violence by the surrounding community are very, very likely to die a preventable death.

    Which also undercuts the primary claim. Anyone whose rights are compromised by the law is automatically given relief via the passage of time.

    This wasn't great strategy, but nevertheless, it is possible that the SCOTUS will rule in the NRA's favor.

    In 10 years or so. Odds of that happening hover near zero, IMO.

    Judicial restraint/constitutional power of the courts strongly favor refusing to resolve disputes between parties if that dispute is "political".

    One reason to refrain from predicting how SCOTUS will rule, once this case reaches them, is we don't know who the justices will be when it is heard.

    "The Pelican Brief", staring Julia Roberts, leaps to mind.

    But still.....it's possible the NRA will prevail.

    Other, better prepared lawsuits can also be filed, of course.
    Look for a complaint in Florida state supreme court filed by someone whose actual gun rights are abridged, or that same claim in federal district court, framed as a civil rights claim, for example.

    This is going to clear up the limits of government's power to burden 2A rights that has persisted after D.C v. Heller, 2008, I predict.

    Good stuff. Might be the only move the NRA has made in my lifetime that I think contributes to America.
    Last edited by Madeline; 10th March 2018 at 03:33 AM.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Anyone got a link to the text of the complaint, please?

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Madeline; 10th March 2018 at 03:31 AM.

  6. #26
    Dick with my Buzz...Try DebateDrone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    Someone explain to me - or them - how a restriction for SOME guns can be legal, and go for years without a challenge in court, and once all guns are treated with that same limit, it all of a sudden goes against the 2A ?
    NRA needs to increase membership do to the loss of those sane members that dropped off.

    NRA needs to show their dues paying members that they are..." doing something...doing anything".


    In the US the minimum to purchase a rifle or non pistol grip shotgun from a FFL dealer is 18. For pistols and pistol grip shotguns it's 21.

    You are correct. Why now? Why after years of the age restrictions for purchasing firearms went unchallenged the push.
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  7. #27
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    Someone explain to me - or them - how a restriction for SOME guns can be legal, and go for years without a challenge in court, and once all guns are treated with that same limit, it all of a sudden goes against the 2A ?
    It's a losing argument, IMO. However, after Heller, SCOTUS has refrained from setting out how a law burdening 2A rights should be tested.

    Very, very few laws or government acts will survive strict scrutiny, ir, proof that this burden is the least restrictive means to achieve an essential government purpose.

    Most of the rights guaranteed by the bill of rights are constitutionally protected EXCEPT for government acts and laws that pass strict scrutiny.

    This new Florida law could, because reducing gun violence IS an essential government purpose. If those SCOTUS justices hearing the case a decade from now feel the 18 to 21 year old classification is reasonable, the law will be upheld. And that seems very likely, as this age group commits a disproportionately high percent of all gun violence.

    Lots of moving parts here. I can't figure out how the NRA, as the plaintiff, even had standing to sue in any court, complaining about any gun law.

    The rights of individual Americans are arguably infringed, but the NRA has lost no freedoms. That group still has its tax exempt status (ugh), its free speech rights are intact, etc.

    The NRA is not the alias of every American under 21 living in Florida. They are not suitable as a representative, IMO.

    Be interesting to watch which other states pass similar laws. This might be the beginning of the end of NRA-esque terror by gun in America.

    So, you see? Rick Scott did a very good thing, despite behaving very badly for his entire political career until now.

    This phenomenon is why I have hope Trump will yet bless America. Maybe halt the opioid epidemic, or revive the American steel industry.

    It's a strange but not unwelcome new day in this country.

    ANYTHING can happen next.
    Last edited by Madeline; 10th March 2018 at 03:56 AM.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    The nerves they have... are these people even human?
    O, c'mon. The NRA has leveraged gun rights into HUGE political power in the U.S. and now is defending that power.

    Seems rather predictable human behavior to me.

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It seems unlikely a temporary restraining order or preliminary injunction will be issued. As to whether a permanent injunction will be issued after trial ... well, it depends on the trial, and the appeals that will doubtlessly be filed thereafter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injunc..._United_States
    Does the federal district court have jurisdiction on this dispute, given that the Florida state courts have not heard this case?

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    lol
    Anymore than AAA sells cars or the AMA fixes broken bones or the ADA fills cavities.
    The American Bar Association will not serve your prison sentence for you.

    The College of American Obstreticians will not carry your baby and give birth to it.

    This is a fun game!

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