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Thread: Trump Pardons "Scooter"

  1. #21
    Moderator HayJenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    The investigation that put "Scooter" in jail was a first-class farce. There was no outing and the person that did release her name was known the Special Counsel from day one.

    Ergo, no one should have been sent to jail and the investigation should have lasted but a few days. That is not how D.C. works.
    Really?

    I think Plame is more qualified to speak to this issue than you are

    Former CIA agent Valerie Plame ripped President Trump for pardoning I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby on Friday for his conviction related to the leaking of her identity.

    “President Donald Trump has granted a pardon to I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby on the basis that he was 'treated unfairly'. That is simply false,” Plame said in a statement.

    Plame noted that Libby had been convicted of obstruction of justice and perjury “in a fair trial” in which both former President George W. Bush and former Vice President Dick Cheney had given testimony.
    “President Bush declined to issue a pardon, stating 'I respect the jury’s verdict.' He added, 'And if a person does not tell the truth, particularly if he serves in government and holds the public trust, he must be held accountable,'” Plame said.

    “President’s Trump’s pardon is not based on the truth,” she added.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...t-based-on-the
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  2. #22
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    The pardon itself is kind of "meh" to me. He'd already gotten out of serving jail time, he's got his law license back... he already wasn't really being punished harshly at all compared to others who'd committed and been convicted of similar crimes. Like most people, I too am somewhat used to the privileged not having to do the time after doing the crime.

    The disappointing part is the lack of serious thought that went into the decision to pardon him and then the blind partisanship, shallow thinking, and/or the blatant disingenuousness put forth by many supporting the pardon.
    Personally had no problem with how Bush handled Libby. Thought Fitzgerald (Who i actually admire) was stuck with an airball/failure in the Plame case and felt obligate to prosecute somebody/anybody.

    Trump on the other hand is just being Trump. A sensationalist reality show doofus.
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  3. #23
    Veteran Member beatleboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    This is 100% fact. It is amazing that no one went to prison on the DoJ side for this slimy investigation. They knew from the start there was no leak. They knew who did release the information and he (Richard Armitage) was part of the "investigation". This is everything a Federal Investigation should not be.

    Good on Trump for doing what Bush and Obama failed to do before him.

    Now there's something of a farce. Good and Trump are words that should never be put together.

  4. #24
    Going Nuclear- Daily Yetisports6 - Big Wave Champion, Bezerk Champion, All Ball Champion, Magic Gem Champion, Crystal Clear Champion, Flower Power Champion, Space Thieves TD Champion, X-treme Moto Idiot Cross Champion, Micro Tanks Champion, Race Horse Tycoon Champion, Railway Line Champion, Raju Meter 2 Champion, Metal Slug - Kill the Nazis Champion, Decoder Champion, 1 in 24 Speed v32  Champion Crusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatleboy View Post
    Now there's something of a farce. Good and Trump are words that should never be put together.
    Never!

    Not when he:

    • Attacks Assad's Chemical Weapon capability
    • Gets Tax Cuts
    • Improves the Job count
    • Historical Reduction in Illegal Immigration
    • Crushed ISIS
    • Improved U.S. Economy
    • Reviving NASA
    • VA Accountability and Visibility


    Nope... never say it!!!!

    Welcome to blind partisanship!

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Think for myself View Post
    What an abuse of a power. Un fucking real.
    How is it an abuse of power? Don't move the goalposts, you claim it is an abuse of power. Spell out your case. Did you object to any of President Obama's pardons or other measures of executive clemency?

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve1 View Post
    The man was convicted by a JURY !!!
    And the President has the power to commute or pardon. That is how it works. Remember a certain Manning that got clemency?

  7. #27
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    How is it an abuse of power? Don't move the goalposts, you claim it is an abuse of power. Spell out your case. Did you object to any of President Obama's pardons or other measures of executive clemency?
    All of Obama's pardons happened on the recommendation of the Office of the Pardon Attorney or after years of advocacy by third parties with no relation to the president. By longstanding tradition, a pardon is granted to someone who has expressed contrition and willfully paid severe penalties for their crime, and is either asking to have their post-release federal criminal record cleared or to be freed from a life sentence. Carter, Reagan, H.W. Bush, W. Bush and Obama all followed this tradition with their pardons (executive commutation, which doesn't erase a conviction, is a bit more discretionary). Clinton violated the tradition with Marc Rich and others. So far, Trump has done nothing but violate the tradition, in arbitrarily pardoning people he himself/key aides have political and personal connections to.
    Last edited by Singularity; 15th April 2018 at 10:12 AM.
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  8. #28
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    All of Obama's pardons happened on the recommendation of the Office of the Pardon Attorney or after years of advocacy by third parties with no relation to the president. By longstanding tradition, a pardon is granted to someone who has expressed contrition and willfully paid severe penalties for their crime, and is either asking to have their post-release federal criminal record cleared or to be freed from a life sentence. Carter, Reagan, H.W. Bush, W. Bush and Obama all followed this tradition with their pardons (executive commutation, which doesn't erase a conviction, is a bit more discretionary). Clinton violated the tradition with Marc Rich and others. So far, Trump has done nothing but violate the tradition, in arbitrarily pardoning people he himself/key aides have political and personal connections to.

    A lot of good points there.

    Nice post.
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  9. #29
    Veteran Member beatleboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Never!

    Not when he:

    • Attacks Assad's Chemical Weapon capability
    • Gets Tax Cuts
    • Improves the Job count
    • Historical Reduction in Illegal Immigration
    • Crushed ISIS
    • Improved U.S. Economy
    • Reviving NASA
    • VA Accountability and Visibility


    Nope... never say it!!!!

    Welcome to blind partisanship!
    1.Syria attacks, won't deter a thing, but he did do what he said he would, unlike Obama, so there goes your partisan hack comment.
    2. Tax cuts are permanent for the richest, the others just last a few years..why can't all cuts be permanent?
    3.Job counts were started under Obama, Trump inherited a growing economy. he didn't create it.
    4. Don't know about NASA, is it because Trump wants to create a colony of humans on the moon?
    5.Va, has been called out by every President, nothing has been done, putting in his own doctor is a joke.
    Last edited by beatleboy; 15th April 2018 at 10:24 AM.
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  10. #30
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    A lot of good points there.

    Nice post.
    Thanks. What's important to keep in mind is what a pardon says, as well as what a pardon does.

    In most cases, it's the president using one of his few (officially) unchecked powers to say someone deserves a new lease on life after they've done hard time.

    In cases like this one, the president is declaring both the trial court and the appeals system engaged in a miscarriage of justice. This is especially blatant with Libby, who already received a commutation and had regained his license to practice law. It is Trump declaring the courts don't matter if he sympathizes with someone.

    And then Arpaio was just naked personal corruption. This guy helped me out, I like him, so I am going to hand him a get out of jail free card and you can't do anything about it. Worse, because it involved contempt of court, the only practical mechanism a court has to ensure its orders are followed, it explicitly undermined the rule of law.

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