Members banned from this thread: CEngelbrecht


Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 335
Thanks Tree255Thanks

Thread: Trump's pledge fulfilled : US opens embassy in Jerusalem

  1. #141
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    62,408
    Thanks
    31188

    From
    Vulcan
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    I get it. A nice long post saying that terrorism works and we should give into to terrorism.
    No. I am saying our people should be protected, while we continue to go after terrorists. Fighting terrorism does not mean putting our own civilians in the line of fire just to make a point.

    The embassy belongs in Yerushalayim. That does not make the move wise - a move three prior presidents would not make. You excoriate Obama, but fail to note Bush and Clinton did not move it, either. It is not about American partisan politics at all.

    Besides, most of that "nice long post" had nothing to do with what you claim. I responded to two other people in that post on other issues.

  2. #142
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36,995
    Thanks
    7569

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No. I am saying our people should be protected, while we continue to go after terrorists. Fighting terrorism does not mean putting our own civilians in the line of fire just to make a point.

    The embassy belongs in Yerushalayim. That does not make the move wise - a move three prior presidents would not make. You excoriate Obama, but fail to note Bush and Clinton did not move it, either. It is not about American partisan politics at all.

    Besides, most of that "nice long post" had nothing to do with what you claim.
    I guess you didn't bother to read post #123. What you are saying is that our country should bow to the terrorists. You think that we should continue to fail to recognize Israel's true capital, to appease terrorists. As you have pointed out so eloquently, that building was already a US Consulate. Same address, remember? Therefore, what Americans were put in the line of fire? Doh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Do you support the move? Are you willing to give President Trump props for actually following through with his promise despite the three presidents before him, failing to do so?

  3. #143
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    62,408
    Thanks
    31188

    From
    Vulcan
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    What you are saying is that our country should bow to the terrorists.
    No, it is not. You are making that up. If we were talking about moving the embassy away from Yerushalayim on account of terrorism, I would agree; but that is not the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    You think that we should continue to fail to recognize Israel's true capital, to appease terrorists.
    That is also a made-up statement

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    As you have pointed out so eloquently, that building was already a US Consulate. Same address, remember? Therefore, what Americans were put in the line of fire?
    There is a difference between a consulate and an embassy, as you have so eloquently pointed out, and therefore are likely to be treated differently - and usually are. Combined with recognition of Israel's real capital, it would tend to draw fire that was not there before. That is a valid practical consideration that you want to make into a partisan political football, and that you deliberately ignore in order to make attacks on people who disagree with you.

  4. #144
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36,995
    Thanks
    7569

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, it is not. You are making that up. If we were talking about moving the embassy away from Yerushalayim on account of terrorism, I would agree; but that is not the topic.

    That is also a made-up statement

    There is a difference between a consulate and an embassy, as you have so eloquently pointed out, and therefore are likely to be treated differently - and usually are. Combined with recognition of Israel's real capital, it would tend to draw fire that was not there before. That is a valid practical consideration that you want to make into a partisan political football, and that you deliberately ignore in order to make attacks on people who disagree with you.
    No, you stated that the reason we shouldn't move the embassy is that it would put American lives in danger. Therefore, you cave to terrorists. That's exactly what they want. Early, you and Djinn were claiming that nothing changed. That the address was the same, nothing changed. Now which is it? Were you posting bullshit then or now? Was President Trump's moving of the embassy a big thing, or not big deal? You can't have it both ways.
    Thanks from Goofball

  5. #145
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2014
    Posts
    24,998
    Thanks
    16878

    From
    Missouri
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Post #131 was 'blank' for me as well.......
    Sorry!

  6. #146
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2014
    Posts
    24,998
    Thanks
    16878

    From
    Missouri
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    No, you stated that the reason we shouldn't move the embassy is that it would put American lives in danger. Therefore, you cave to terrorists. That's exactly what they want. Early, you and Djinn were claiming that nothing changed. That the address was the same, nothing changed. Now which is it? Were you posting bullshit then or now? Was President Trump's moving of the embassy a big thing, or not big deal? You can't have it both ways.
    Actually, I thought he was referring to Israeli civilians, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

    Either way, you know well and good Ian is one of the staunchest defenders of Israel and its sovereignty (and right to defend itself.) There are political arguments in favor and against moving the embassy. I happen to agree with moving it, but at least I can understand the reasoning behind holding up on that without going ad hominem. You should try it sometime.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and jacobfitcher

  7. #147
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36,995
    Thanks
    7569

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Actually, I thought he was referring to Israeli civilians, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

    Either way, you know well and good Ian is one of the staunchest defenders of Israel and its sovereignty (and right to defend itself.) There are political arguments in favor and against moving the embassy. I happen to agree with moving it, but at least I can understand the reasoning behind holding up on that without going ad hominem. You should try it sometime.
    Okay, I can see the reason to argue we shouldn't move it. That reason is that the terrorist have won and we are capitulating to what they want. It's pretty simple. Now, I was also attacked with posts from both Djinn and Ian that said that Trump didn't do anything but change a sign and hold a party. So, if nothing changed, why is the danger increased? It can't be both things. It can't be a huge danger and it can't be a nothing burger.

  8. #148
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2014
    Posts
    24,998
    Thanks
    16878

    From
    Missouri
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    Okay, I can see the reason to argue we shouldn't move it. That reason is that the terrorist have won and we are capitulating to what they want. It's pretty simple. Now, I was also attacked with posts from both Djinn and Ian that said that Trump didn't do anything but change a sign and hold a party. So, if nothing changed, why is the danger increased? It can't be both things. It can't be a huge danger and it can't be a nothing burger.
    You were attacked?

    My take on their point is that, at this point, the move is largely symbolic (a declaration rather than a full move of facilities and operations) but that the symbolic gesture is nonetheless a rallying cry for Hamas.

    Some might believe the move could be used as a bargaining chip in brokering a deal. You don't need to paint their motives as sinister - particularly when you largely agree on the principle but disagree on the timing.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  9. #149
    Veteran Member Southern Dad's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36,995
    Thanks
    7569

    From
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    You were attacked?

    My take on their point is that, at this point, the move is largely symbolic (a declaration rather than a full move of facilities and operations) but that the symbolic gesture is nonetheless a rallying cry for Hamas.

    Some might believe the move could be used as a bargaining chip in brokering a deal. You don't need to paint their motives as sinister - particularly when you largely agree on the principle but disagree on the timing.
    A bargaining chip to broker what deal? Is there something that leads you to believe that there is any deal in the near future? I think that our embassy should have been moved long ago. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. That's where the embassy should be.

  10. #150
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2014
    Posts
    24,998
    Thanks
    16878

    From
    Missouri
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    A bargaining chip to broker what deal? Is there something that leads you to believe that there is any deal in the near future? I think that our embassy should have been moved long ago. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. That's where the embassy should be.
    It isn't my argument, SD. I'm in agreement with you. Someone who believes it should be delayed or handled differently is better able to address that. I was trying to point out that mere disagreement with you (or me) on the timing/method doesn't automatically render one pusillanimous.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. US Embassy in Jerusalem opens May 14
    By bajisima in forum Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 1st May 2018, 11:45 AM
  2. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 30th April 2018, 06:10 AM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 19th January 2018, 09:41 AM
  4. Guatemala to move embassy to Jerusalem
    By The Man in forum Current Events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 24th December 2017, 10:37 PM
  5. On Waiving the Jerusalem Embassy Act (or Not)
    By labrea in forum Asia & Middle East
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 18th December 2017, 07:22 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed