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Thread: How Bernie Won?

  1. #111
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Interestingly, a Sanders endorsed candidate won in Nebraska yesterday defeating a moderate dem. Now pundits are scratching their heads claiming she probably cant win a general election against the GOP. We shall see. Weaver has been claiming in his interviews that these progressive candidates will indeed win thus indicating Sanders could run in 2020. I suppose that will depend on how the further left progressives do and how voters respond.

  2. #112
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    As far as campaign finance and lobbying, it would of course depend on what changes to the law we would be talking about.

    As to proportional seating, that would be a change in the system itself.
    well, I can understand your point even though it doesn't fully answer the question. maybe @Babba could supply the details which would allow you to fully answer the question.

  3. #113
    #walkaway orangecat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Here's one way to approach the question of how far left is the right amount. Picture laying all the countries of the world out on a spectrum, from right to left. There are a lot of factors that could be used to differentiate countries on a left-right axis that way, but just to have a simple one with hard numbers to use, picture if you did it by looking at how much each country's total government spending was as a share of GDP. So, at the far left of the spectrum you'd have a country where the entirety of the economy took place in the form of government spending, and at the far right you'd have a country that had no government spending at all.

    I think if you did that, you'd find that all the wealthy nations fell within a range -- about 28% to 58%, approximately. That's the range of workable solutions for how far left you can be and still be generally prosperous -- any further left or right than that, and you're out in uncharted territory, where it may not even be possible to maintain general prosperity.

    Using that analysis, let's say you're Finland, with government spending at 57.1%:

    https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-go...t-spending.htm

    Well, I'd argue you're probably too far to the left. You're almost out in that territory where it's not even clear it's possible to maintain prosperity. You could well be risking becoming so socialistic that the incentives of capitalism no longer function effectively and the economy starts to come unglued. To be on the safe side, you'd do well to cut government spending a bit, privatize some matters currently handled by the government, and move more safely towards the middle of the pack of wealthy peers.

    Well, in the same sense, what if you're the United States? Well, in that case, you're sitting to the right of nearly all the other wealthy nations. There isn't a single large wealthy nation with a government that spends less than yours, as a share of GDP.... just a few smallish wealthy nations with boutique economies, like Ireland, and a few poorish large nations like Russia. So, you'd probably be better off to move away from the fringe, by boosting government spending. There's no serious question about the fact it's possible for a large nation to be well to the left of the US and yet still have general prosperity, whereas there's a very serious question about whether it's possible for a large nation to be even further to the right than the US without losing its general prosperity. So, the safe move for the US is to shade to the left, just as the safe move for Finland is to shade to the right.
    A reasonable response. I would prefer to look at actual dollars spent and national debt load instead of just a percentage of GDP. I also take into consideration my personal beliefs regarding the size and scope of federal government and what I consent to give up in exchange for said government services. I have a feeling we would disagree on the dimensions of that. All good. That's we we each have an equal vote.

  4. #114
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    well, I can understand your point even though it doesn't fully answer the question. maybe Babba could supply the details which would allow you to fully answer the question.
    It answers the question as asked, so I do not know what more you were looking for.

  5. #115
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It answers the question as asked, so I do not know what more you were looking for.
    your answer of "it depends" is simply a non-answer - which I understand you giving without specifics of the mentioned changes.

  6. #116
    "Mr. Original". the watchman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Interestingly, a Sanders endorsed candidate won in Nebraska yesterday defeating a moderate dem. Now pundits are scratching their heads claiming she probably cant win a general election against the GOP. We shall see. Weaver has been claiming in his interviews that these progressive candidates will indeed win thus indicating Sanders could run in 2020. I suppose that will depend on how the further left progressives do and how voters respond.
    have to admit , he's making more sense than the other presidential hopefuls.

    Sanders has been a frequent critic of the media's focus on Trump's personal foibles, arguing that they distract from issues that actually matter to voters.
    "Too much attention is given to sensational issues like Stormy Daniels, or who Trump fired yesterday, or the latest tweet that he sent out today," Sanders said at a discussion on racial and economic justice at Duke University in North Carolina last month. "And they are not talking about the broad issues that impact tens of millions of Americans."
    Democrats are running hard -- away from the Trump circus

  7. #117
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    No not at all. Many agree with his ideas. But as we are finding out, he had curious connections and meetings as well during the campaign. The Mueller investigation is discovering a lot of things all over. Russia really dug in deep.
    Thats some serious conspiracy stuff right there

  8. #118
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the watchman View Post
    sure, here's the definition of corrupt. https://www.google.com/search?client....0.5jT6pAcUy5c

    Now, can you please answer the question? How is Sanders not corrupt given how he manipulated the system for his own personal gain? He said that if he ever ran as a Democrat that would make him a hypocrite. Yet, he did run as a Democrat for the sole purpose of his own personal gain. He then, switched back to the party he was registered as. He never intended to win the nomination. He knew he wouldn't. You claim he's "stuck" with a two party system. But, no one forced him to run as a Democrat. He made that choice himself with a corrupt purpose.
    Thats not personal gain, he is a public servant.....pretty broke for a politician ...he didnt take bribes by giving speeches to wall street. THATS personal gain ...and remember it was the Bill Clintion admin who gave us the repeal of glass steagal.

  9. #119
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    Thats not personal gain, he is a public servant.....pretty broke for a politician ...he didnt take bribes by giving speeches to wall street. THATS personal gain ...and remember it was the Bill Clintion admin who gave us the repeal of glass steagal.

    Bernie is a loser. That's what matters. You can't change a damned thing if you can't win an election, and Bernie couldn't even win over Hillary among the Democratic base electorate.

    Elections have real world consequences. If Ralph Nader supporters couldn't grasp that after 2000, then Bernie Sanders supporters should damned sure figure it out after having helped to put Donald Trump into office in 2016.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey

  10. #120
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Bernie is a loser. That's what matters. You can't change a damned thing if you can't win an election, and Bernie couldn't even win over Hillary among the Democratic base electorate.

    Elections have real world consequences. If Ralph Nader supporters couldn't grasp that after 2000, then Bernie Sanders supporters should damned sure figure it out after having helped to put Donald Trump into office in 2016.
    what you thinks matters is why the US is so fucked...you want "winners" that cause us all to be losers...you have much in common with people who embrace and support brutal dictators, the also admire the success while ignoring whats truly important. Forget issues, lets focus on wins and cult of personality instead right?

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