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Thread: Judge: Mueller Can Indict Manafort

  1. #101
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunchboxxy View Post
    No, he didnít. Thatís not a thing. It didnít happen.



    Bottom line, if it wasnít for the actions of trump and his campaign and their dealings with Russia there would never have been an investigation into Russian collusion.
    What do you mean? Several documents have been declassified on the matter, and Nunes spelled it out.


    But... you're not ready for that yet.

  2. #102
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is not a question of the correct jargon. A president can request a warrant, but it must be signed by a judge to be effective, and FISA is no different.


    Bottom line, irrelevant. Political opinions have nothing to do with whether the defendant is guilty of a crime. Political opinions also have nothing to do with whether the relevant search was valid, or whether the relevant evidence is admissible at trial. And neither the warrant, nor the search, nor political opinions are relevant issues for a jury to consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is not a question of the correct jargon. A president can request a warrant, but it must be signed by a judge to be effective, and FISA is no different.


    Bottom line, irrelevant. Political opinions have nothing to do with whether the defendant is guilty of a crime. Political opinions also have nothing to do with whether the relevant search was valid, or whether the relevant evidence is admissible at trial. And neither the warrant, nor the search, nor political opinions are relevant issues for a jury to consider.
    You are obfuscating. Why?

    There's no political opinion... I'm describing to you why ALL THE EVIDENCE is fruit of a poison tree.

    - lying to a judge to get a warrant
    - supplying false evidence

    That allowed the spying. That is: every phone call, email, text message being recorded, of everyone they talk to, everyone that group talks to and also whoever that second group talks to.

    Manafort evidence was obtained via that spying. Fruit of the poison tree. Only a truly inept defence would not call for every piece of evidence obtained tossed aside before even discussing innocence or guilt.

  3. #103
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    You are obfuscating. Why?
    No, I am not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Manafort evidence was obtained via that spying. Fruit of the poison tree.
    Doubtful a court will find it so, but it could find some or all of it inadmissible.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Only a truly inept defence would not call for every piece of evidence obtained tossed aside before even discussing innocence or guilt.
    And none of this is material for a jury. It is a legal question for the judge, as to what is admissible and what is not. And the legality of a search, or a warrant, is not admissible in a trial in any case.

  4. #104
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, I am not.


    Doubtful a court will find it so, but it could find some or all of it inadmissible.


    And none of this is material for a jury. It is a legal question for the judge, as to what is admissible and what is not. And the legality of a search, or a warrant, is not admissible in a trial in any case.
    Yes. When I bring up the criminal origins you respond as though crime is political.

    When I'm talking about the admission of evidence you talk about guilt vs innocence.

    To go back to the analogy; your argument amounts to, even if you had a camera that filmed the cop dropping the bag of coke in your car, that would not prevent the use of that evidence... if that's not your intent, it's the result of how you are sidestepping.

    Are you just not aware of the facts and origins of the whole Russian collusion delusion?

  5. #105
    El Psy Kongroo Lunchboxxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    What do you mean? Several documents have been declassified on the matter, and Nunes spelled it out.


    But... you're not ready for that yet.
    No, they haven’t. Obama never signed anything relating to fisa application.

  6. #106
    El Psy Kongroo Lunchboxxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    UH OH. Look at the Manafort indictment "Company B" (the company he was working for when he was dealing with the Russians ) is the podesta Group.

    Keep clicking your heels and saying "It Cannot be true it cannot be true." maybe the Tin Man will come and rescue you

    He was indicted for Crimes committed 2006-2013 (that was the period he was contracted with Podesta and he was contracted to do work product for the DNC and the Clinton Foundation)

    Shame shame. None or so blind as those that will not see.
    Read my post again. Maybe slower this time.

  7. #107
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunchboxxy View Post
    No, they havenít. Obama never signed anything relating to fisa application.
    Are you sure? Are you REALLY sure?

  8. #108
    Junior Member Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    The guy is a fucking crook...
    Well, he's a bad crook because he got caught. The likes of Obama and Hillary are good crooks because they've been clever in hiding their crimes.

  9. #109
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Yes. When I bring up the criminal origins you respond as though crime is political.
    No, you posted as though the investigation is political rather than looking into possible criminal behavior. And nothing the government has done is "criminal."

    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    When I'm talking about the admission of evidence you talk about guilt vs innocence.
    You wanted the jury to see information about the search. The jury determines only whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty, and information about the search is not relevant to that question. Thus, the jury does not get to see it. Whether the evidence is admissible is a separate, legal question for the judge to determine, not the jury.

    I have addressed the points you originally made. I have addressed the points you switched over to later. The reality is that you have held this whole thing to be some sort of political persecution of Trump and/or the people under him (past or present). It is not, irrespective of how a court rules on the admissibility of the evidence or how a jury finds as to whether a crime was committed.

  10. #110
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Are you sure? Are you REALLY sure?
    If you have something, or believe you do, you should post it. Obama can sign off on a FISA warrant application to the FISC, but he cannot sign the warrant authorizing the search.

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