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Thread: The Science About When Life Begins

  1. #11
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    "When life begins" is not even a valid question. And there is no such thing as "pro-abortion rhetoric," at least none I've ever heard. Pro-choice means the right to choose, nothing more, and that includes the right to choose not to abort. Despite the characterization of the OP article, it is actually an opinion published in a far-right source, and is not properly a science report.
    Really? I certainly thought I was reading a science report when I came across high-falutin' scientific terminology like this: "the male and the female juicy bits".


    I see that kind of impenetrable jargon all the time in science journals....

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    Sarcastic presentation of something that is true...

    this has to be moved to "Political Humor".
    Why? He sounds like a typical 13 year old boy.

  3. #13
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    The Science About When Life Begins Makes Pro-Choicers Look Terrible



    So, when does life begin? It has always been pretty obvious to me that it begins when the male and the female juicy bits set off that spark inside the mama and it would also seem that science agrees. If you don't believe that, are you truly a "progressive" or are you suppressing your emotions to justify killing a new person?

    Life certainly doesn't begin at conception. All of the involved gametes were alive prior to fertilization. All but one of the spermatozoa will die after conception, and every ovum that a woman produces during her lifetime will also die, if not fertilized. A blastocyst is "alive", but it isn't a person.

  4. #14
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Human life does not begin. The spirit always was, always will be. When the spirit enters the body, that's when mortal, earthly life begins. we can tell when that happens because the fetus begins to show brain function. Until that time, the zygote/fetus is simply a blob of cells with no animating spirit. When the brain ceases to function, that's the sign that the spirit has left the body, and then the discarded body dies and returns to its component parts, perhaps to make up a new body eventually.

    If a blob of cells with no animating spirit is discarded before the spirit enters, then that body simply goes back to its component parts. The spirit must then wait until a new body is available. Waiting is no problem for an eternal spirit.

    It's a lot like a car, except that the driver enters and exits it many times. The car, if it is flawed on the assembly line, is discarded and recycled before anyone drives it. Once it is worn out, there is no driver, no one in it, and it is taken apart and recycled. The driver than goes on to inhabit a new car, or perhaps not. The driver may go on to another sort of life, one that doesn't involve driving a car.

  5. #15
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Human life does not begin. The spirit always was, always will be. When the spirit enters the body, that's when mortal, earthly life begins. we can tell when that happens because the fetus begins to show brain function. Until that time, the zygote/fetus is simply a blob of cells with no animating spirit. When the brain ceases to function, that's the sign that the spirit has left the body, and then the discarded body dies and returns to its component parts, perhaps to make up a new body eventually.

    If a blob of cells with no animating spirit is discarded before the spirit enters, then that body simply goes back to its component parts. The spirit must then wait until a new body is available. Waiting is no problem for an eternal spirit.

    It's a lot like a car, except that the driver enters and exits it many times. The car, if it is flawed on the assembly line, is discarded and recycled before anyone drives it. Once it is worn out, there is no driver, no one in it, and it is taken apart and recycled. The driver than goes on to inhabit a new car, or perhaps not. The driver may go on to another sort of life, one that doesn't involve driving a car.

    That actually corresponds very closely to the rules for abortion set forth by the early Church Fathers of Christianity. Abortion was allowed up until the time of "the quickening", after which, it was forbidden.
    Thanks from Blueneck

  6. #16
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    That actually corresponds very closely to the rules for abortion set forth by the early Church Fathers of Christianity. Abortion was allowed up until the time of "the quickening", after which, it was forbidden.
    Seems like a rational approach. Once the spirit quickens the fetus, then aborting it should be outlawed.

  7. #17
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    ... So, when does life begin? It has always been pretty obvious to me that it begins when the male and the female juicy bits set off that spark inside the mama and it would also seem that science agrees. If you don't believe that, are you truly a "progressive" or are you suppressing your emotions to justify killing a new person?
    The argument only carries merit if you assume that all "life" is sacred, which is obviously not the case. There's not a one of us that wouldn't casually squelch out life under many circumstances.

    So let's say "human life." Every year, MILLIONS of women undergo in vitro fertilization. In this procedure, multiple fertilized eggs are implanted in a woman with each attempt. Why multiple fertilized eggs? Because statistically, most of them will die. It's an expected part of the process.

    That's why most of the world has banned IVF; it's just not worth the cost in human lives. Nah, I'm kidding. It's used all the time, in many countries. And nary a thought is given to the number of fertilized eggs that will perish in the effort. Nor is any thought given to the tens of millions of fertilized eggs that were killed in the course of IVF procedure development over the decades.

    So asking "where does human life begin" isn't really an argument that pertains to abortion rights. It's academic, and under other circumstances, completely irrelevant - even when human embryos are deliberately killed.

  8. #18
    Somewhere else GoaTlOver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    "When life begins" is not even a valid question. And there is no such thing as "pro-abortion rhetoric," at least none I've ever heard. Pro-choice means the right to choose, nothing more, and that includes the right to choose not to abort. Despite the characterization of the OP article, it is actually an opinion published in a far-right source, and is not properly a science report.
    True that this is not properly a science report. Good job figuring that out. And also true that I may have mixed up some of the terminology on this subject. Good on you again, but "when does life begin" IS a valid question regardless of your opinion otherwise.

  9. #19
    Somewhere else GoaTlOver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    It is not the laws responsibility to address your feelings.
    I am not addressing my feelings here.

  10. #20
    Somewhere else GoaTlOver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Really? I certainly thought I was reading a science report when I came across high-falutin' scientific terminology like this: "the male and the female juicy bits".


    I see that kind of impenetrable jargon all the time in science journals....
    Yes...and "high-falutin" really made me think you had a serious answer. Oh...no, wait. You didn't even address the opinion piece that is the topic of this thread.

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