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Thread: The Science About When Life Begins

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoaTlOver View Post
    The Science About When Life Begins Makes Pro-Choicers Look Terrible



    So, when does life begin? It has always been pretty obvious to me that it begins when the male and the female juicy bits set off that spark inside the mama and it would also seem that science agrees. If you don't believe that, are you truly a "progressive" or are you suppressing your emotions to justify killing a new person?
    The relevant question with abortion isn't when life begins, but rather what makes a life inviolable. When a mosquito lands on me, I swat it, knowing full well that its life began some time ago. In a similar sense, a fertilized egg is clearly alive. For that matter, an unfertilized egg is alive, too, as is every sperm. But, does that give them a right to life?

    If anti-choicers want to convince pro-choicers that our shared government should be used to enforce their religious taboo against abortion, talk about when life begins isn't going to do it. Punishing women for terminating unwanted pregnancies is a very big invasion by government on individual liberty, so it will take a much stronger argument than that -- an argument rooted not in the word games about life, but rather in moral arguments about what gives a particular life an unalienable right to continue living.
    Last edited by Arkady; 28th June 2018 at 10:13 AM.

  2. #52
    Veteran Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not all spirits are inhabiting human bodies at the same time. Currently, more of them are experiencing human life than was the case a thousand years ago. Of course, not all spirits engaged in mortal life are in possession of human bodies. All of the higher animals also have spirits to quicken them. That's where our word "animal" comes from - anima, or spirit.

    Of course, some are in the spirit world.
    What happens when the population is so big, that all the spirits are in use? We'll have to start killing old people so new babies can be born!

  3. #53
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    ... If anti-choicers want to convince pro-choicers that our shared government should be used to enforce their religious taboo against abortion, talk about when life begins isn't going to do it. Punishing women for terminating unwanted pregnancies is a very big invasion by government on individual liberty, so it will take a much stronger argument than that -- and argument rooted not in the word games about life, but rather in moral arguments about what gives a particular life an unalienable right to continue living.
    Nicely put.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebateDrone View Post
    The US Constitution allows for the lawful taking of Human life so long as the state does so by due process. 5th amendment.

    Abortion is the lawful taking of human life; by which the ruling to do so has had its due process in the courts, in the Roe v. Wade ruling.

    when life begins is irrelevant.
    Roe V Wade speculates that viability is a legitimate time when the state can begin to regulate abortions.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...viability.html

    Roe vs. Wade, the 1973 case legalizing abortion, made fetal viability an important legal concept. The Supreme Court ruled that states cannot put the interests of a fetus ahead of the interests of the pregnant woman until the fetus is "viable." The court defined viable to mean capable of prolonged life outside the mother's womb. It said this included fetuses that doctors expected to be sustained by respirators. The court accepted the conventional medical wisdom that a fetus becomes viable at the start of the last third of a pregnancy, the third trimester, sometime between the 24th and 28th week
    Last edited by kmiller1610; 28th June 2018 at 06:47 AM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    The relevant question with abortion isn't when life begins, but rather what makes a life inviolable. When a mosquito lands on me, I swat it, knowing full well that its life began some time ago. In a similar sense, a fertilized egg is clearly alive. For that matter, an unfertilized egg is alive, too, as is every sperm. But, does that give them a right to life?

    If anti-choicers want to convince pro-choicers that our shared government should be used to enforce their religious taboo against abortion, talk about when life begins isn't going to do it. Punishing women for terminating unwanted pregnancies is a very big invasion by government on individual liberty, so it will take a much stronger argument than that -- and argument rooted not in the word games about life, but rather in moral arguments about what gives a particular life an unalienable right to continue living.
    Start with something we can agree on. I suggest viability, not the birth canal. It's a person as soon as it can viably exist outside the womb, not when it passes out of the womb.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Seems unlikely. What do you think?

    I think that if one attributes the animation of animals to an infestation with an entity from the "spirit world", then it is logical to assume that all animals, no matter how small or simple, are likewise "ensouled".

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Roe V Wade speculates that viability is a legitimate time when the state can begin to regulate abortions.

    Fetal Viability

    Yes, that ruling also aligns fairly well with the opinion of the early Church Fathers regarding the point at which abortion becomes an immoral act.
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  8. #58
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    What happens when the population is so big, that all the spirits are in use? We'll have to start killing old people so new babies can be born!
    So far, we don't seem to have run out of spirits. Babies keep being born all the time.

    Of course, there are a lot fewer non human animals than there used to be before there were so many human beings.

  9. #59
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I think that if one attributes the animation of animals to an infestation with an entity from the "spirit world", then it is logical to assume that all animals, no matter how small or simple, are likewise "ensouled".
    Hmmm.. maybe. Maybe those simple animals have simple souls.

    or maybe amoebas, insects, reptiles, and the like are more like machines made of protoplasm. They don't actually think, or make choices, after all, they just do what they were programmed to do.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So far, we don't seem to have run out of spirits. Babies keep being born all the time.

    Of course, there are a lot fewer non human animals than there used to be before there were so many human beings.

    Or maybe, in the spirit world, new spirits are born on a regular basis in order to keep pace with human population growth?

    I mean, why not? There's no objective evidence to indicate that a spirit world even exists, so we're free to make our own rules.
    Thanks from BigLeRoy

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