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Thread: Trudeau groping "did occur as reported"

  1. #51
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again; Never trust a male feminist.
    And never trust a man. They will go as far as they can, but a woman can put them in their place.

    Rape is a different story. That is a power thing.
    Thanks from The Man and HCProf

  2. #52
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Before being disappointed, wouldn't you first want to know if it actually happened?
    I believe her. The question to me is how we deal with transgressions from another era when treatment of women in the system only recognized rape and even then, blamed the victims. Al Frankin is a classic example of today v yesterday. Do we spank them with today's understanding or do we add time's perspective. I don't know.
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  3. #53
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangecat View Post
    True, that person would be today's 46 year old, math and all.
    I'm actually not very interested in your game. Sorry 'bout that.

  4. #54
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I believe her. The question to me is how we deal with transgressions from another era when treatment of women in the system only recognized rape and even then, blamed the victims. Al Frankin is a classic example of today v yesterday. Do we spank them with today's understanding or do we add time's perspective. I don't know.
    Its very tricky and as we saw with Franken, damaging. He admitted what he did and apologized and then even volunteered to go before an ethics committee. Yet that wasnt good enough. I have to say back when I was in college, a hefty 60% of the guys probably did something that today would be inappropriate or they would be embarassed by it. I would hate to see them today suffer for those immature behaviors. Its not attractive to see some women go after these guys for a dumb act when they were practically kids. Women did dumb things too.
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  5. #55
    Penny for your thots Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Its very tricky and as we saw with Franken, damaging. He admitted what he did and apologized and then even volunteered to go before an ethics committee. Yet that wasnt good enough. I have to say back when I was in college, a hefty 60% of the guys probably did something that today would be inappropriate or they would be embarassed by it. I would hate to see them today suffer for those immature behaviors. Its not attractive to see some women go after these guys for a dumb act when they were practically kids. Women did dumb things too.
    Franken couldn't well deny it with photographic evidence. And the only reason he volunteered to go before the ethics committee was because he knew what a low rate of punitive action they had. The reason Democrats dumped him was political considerations. They saw that they had a shot at the Alabama seat but the only way they could claim moral high ground is by getting rid of Franken, knowing full well that the governor of Minnesota would just appoint another Democrat to his seat. If Alabama hadn't been in play, they'd have probably stood by him.
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  6. #56
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    Franken couldn't well deny it with photographic evidence. And the only reason he volunteered to go before the ethics committee was because he knew what a low rate of punitive action they had. The reason Democrats dumped him was political considerations. They saw that they had a shot at the Alabama seat but the only way they could claim moral high ground is by getting rid of Franken, knowing full well that the governor of Minnesota would just appoint another Democrat to his seat. If Alabama hadn't been in play, they'd have probably stood by him.
    All true but ultimately he paid the price and set the precedent. Gillibrand is still not well liked by Franken voters. Some even feel she got him out of the way for 2020 as she wants to run.

  7. #57
    Penny for your thots Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    All true but ultimately he paid the price and set the precedent. Gillibrand is still not well liked by Franken voters. Some even feel she got him out of the way for 2020 as she wants to run.
    No doubt that was all political calculation on her part. Up until not too long ago, she was cool with Bill Clinton fundraising for her. Then after #MeToo, then she decides y'know maybe Clinton should have resigned after all.
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  8. #58
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Its very tricky and as we saw with Franken, damaging. He admitted what he did and apologized and then even volunteered to go before an ethics committee. Yet that wasnt good enough. I have to say back when I was in college, a hefty 60% of the guys probably did something that today would be inappropriate or they would be embarassed by it. I would hate to see them today suffer for those immature behaviors. Its not attractive to see some women go after these guys for a dumb act when they were practically kids. Women did dumb things too.
    Today's movement is perfection moving forward as young men and women get it now. The relics from the past are really uncomfortable to place today's punishment on over something that was woven into a less enlightened timeframe so I'm glad I am not the only one uncomfortable with it. From the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's messages got very complicated and I think the mixed messages were reflected in courtroom treatment of victims. It took today's movement to clearly set the boundaries women have been calling for.

  9. #59
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Its very tricky and as we saw with Franken, damaging. He admitted what he did and apologized and then even volunteered to go before an ethics committee. Yet that wasnt good enough. I have to say back when I was in college, a hefty 60% of the guys probably did something that today would be inappropriate or they would be embarassed by it. I would hate to see them today suffer for those immature behaviors. Its not attractive to see some women go after these guys for a dumb act when they were practically kids. Women did dumb things too.
    I would say it would be more than 60% When I was in college, women were not as quick to give the green light because of the double standard and the way we were taught. Women were judged by their partner count and some men would not have a thing to do with you if you had too many notches in your bedpost if considering a long term relationship or wife. My ex-fiance' was like that. So guys pushed harder back then because we said No and a lot of them crossed the line. Today, women can enjoy multiple partners, be single Moms and no one blinks an eye. Guys don't have to push so hard now because the double standard is pretty much over and women don't have to protect their reputations like they used too. Men and women will make mistakes, it is part of natural life. It is the reason our Dad's warned us..."Men are natural born liars and will tell you anything to get what they want" I thought of the talk often before I married and he was spot on.
    Thanks from bajisima and MaryAnne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I believe her. The question to me is how we deal with transgressions from another era when treatment of women in the system only recognized rape and even then, blamed the victims. Al Frankin is a classic example of today v yesterday. Do we spank them with today's understanding or do we add time's perspective. I don't know.
    Yet no one on the right believes Trumps 19 plus accusers.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

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