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Thread: The Democratic Party left me behind — and I'm not alone

  1. #41
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Well, you're truly one-in-a-hundred, then. In all my years of political posting online (since about 1998, with the first decade or so being with a "you catch more flies with honey" attitude), I can only think of one case where I convinced a conservative of ANYTHING (the inadvisability of immediately drilling ANWR). I've convinced all sorts of liberals of all sorts of things (I take moderate and conservative views on some topics, so I occasionally debate with liberals), so with liberals I still take the view that if I can just find the right evidence or the right way to phrase an argument, I can get traction. But with conservatives, it just doesn't seem worth it. The dumb ones are unreachable, and the smart ones just bend their intellects to the task of protecting themselves against the need to change their minds.
    You flatter me, sir!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    Well, you're truly one-in-a-hundred, then. In all my years of political posting online (since about 1998, with the first decade or so being with a "you catch more flies with honey" attitude), I can only think of one case where I convinced a conservative of ANYTHING (the inadvisability of immediately drilling ANWR). I've convinced all sorts of liberals of all sorts of things (I take moderate and conservative views on some topics, so I occasionally debate with liberals), so with liberals I still take the view that if I can just find the right evidence or the right way to phrase an argument, I can get traction. But with conservatives, it just doesn't seem worth it. The dumb ones are unreachable, and the smart ones just bend their intellects to the task of protecting themselves against the need to change their minds.
    That sounds about right, liberals have a larger appetite for BS, swallow it right down without question and an affirmative nod.

  3. #43
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    That sounds about right, liberals have a larger appetite for BS, swallow it right down without question and an affirmative nod.
    So...you know broadbrushing in the other direction is still broadbrushing, right?
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    So...you know broadbrushing in the other direction is still broadbrushing, right?
    It is, at least I'm trying not to be condescending and obnoxious.
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  5. #45
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    I can't blame her. No one embraces and respects all middle East Muslim or Hindu immigrants more than the republican party.
    Last edited by Minotaur; 9th July 2018 at 01:08 PM.
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  6. #46
    Chaos in fourteen lines Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    Why aren't conservatives ridiculing the author of the OP article as a DINO?
    They are busy trying to figure out how to revoke her citizenship. Sure hope she has never jaywalked.

  7. #47
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I can't blame her. No one embraces and respects all middle East Muslim immigrants more than the republican party.
    ? Believe she's Indian. And Hindu.
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  8. #48
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevy View Post
    My son was a died in the wool gay democrat. He has left the party but has no place to go. He wont go republican because they left their fiscal leanings. That used to be the only thing he liked about the republican party and now that is gone. The left has gone so far socialist that he won't go back there anytime soon. I don't understand why the never trumpers have not come back on board. They just cannot get over their hate for trump the person. I don't like him either, but I love the way the country is headed right now. I cannot imagine going back to the obama years of slow growth and massive regulations.
    If you don't understand why the 'never-Trumpers' have not "come back on board", I cordially invite you to read the Max Boot column I linked in post #7. It SHOULD answer all your questions on that score. Here is one telling passage from towards the end of his essay:

    The current GOP still has a few resemblances to the party of old — it still cuts taxes and supports conservative judges. But a vote for the GOP in November is also a vote for egregious obstruction of justice, rampant conflicts of interest, the demonization of minorities, the debasement of political discourse, the alienation of America’s allies, the end of free trade and the appeasement of dictators.

    LeRoy: Perhaps YOU would like to tell US why you favor the appeasement of dictators, the end of free trade, the alienation of America's allies, the debasement of political discourse, the demonization of minorities, and etc...….

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevy View Post
    My son was a died in the wool gay democrat. He has left the party but has no place to go. He wont go republican because they left their fiscal leanings. That used to be the only thing he liked about the republican party and now that is gone. The left has gone so far socialist that he won't go back there anytime soon. I don't understand why the never trumpers have not come back on board. They just cannot get over their hate for trump the person. I don't like him either, but I love the way the country is headed right now. I cannot imagine going back to the obama years of slow growth and massive regulations.
    I find that odd, since the Democrats, as a group, are much less socialist than they used to be. For example, it used to be that those on the left of the Democratic Party were arguing the top bracket should be paying 90% or more, while those on the right of the Democratic Party said it should be 70%. These days, even the left of the party is pushing for something around 40% -- making them economically conservative even by the standards of Eisenhower Republicans.

    It used to be the Democrats would object to something along the lines of Obamacare/Romneycare as being too far right. In fact, Ted Kennedy once rejected a healthcare compromise that would have arguably been to the left of Obamacare, which had been offered up by Nixon, because he was holding out for something further to the left (something in line with the more socialized type of programs the Democrats favored back in the old days, when they came up with Social Security and Medicare). These days, Democrats go for right-wing healthcare "reform."

    Similarly, in the old days, the Democrats aggressively favored government-run jobs programs, like the WPA and civilian conservation corps -- or, a couple decades back, Americorps. But, now, they're so afraid of looking even the tiniest bit socialist that they instead favor stimulus programs like ARRA, which are built around providing funding to corporations to create economic activity.

    Likewise, Democrats used to favor more top-down environmental policy, where government decided on the solutions and imposed them, whereas now they favor market-oriented solutions, like cap-and-trade, where the government settles for a mechanism that makes the problem cognizable for the market, and then allows the market to decide on a path by way of the profit motive.

    Gone, too, are the days when it was mainstream for Democrats to champion minimum wages that were far higher, in real terms, than today. The 1968 national minimum wage would be $11.80 in today's money, yet these days it's treated as a far-left position when someone pushes for minimum wages at that level nationally.

    Back in the day, Democrats regularly proposed bold new expansions of government -- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the alphabet soup of new regulatory agencies, etc. These days, the vast majority of Democrats are content merely to hold the line against further erosion of such programs.

    If a Democrat in the style of FDR, Truman, or Johnson met a mainline Democrat today, he'd assume he was a conservative Republican. In light of that, isn't it odd that some people interpret a creeping personal conservatism that is driven by their own mental decline as if it were them holding still while the Democrats moved to the left?
    Thanks from Panzareta

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    Sounds kind of liberal to me.
    Sounds libertarian to me..... consistent with her vote for (former Republican, current libertarian) Gary Johnson.

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