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Thread: Senate overwhelmingly passes resolution supporting NATO...as Trump attacks continue

  1. #11
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    I disagree, he's a republican who actually had the stones to stand up to the likes of Pat Robertson, etc. He even took up for Obama when he was running, calling Obama an upstanding American and distancing himself from disparaging comments directed at him from his own supporters.

    Very un-Trump like.
    Yes. That was a shining moment for John McCain, when one of his own supporters said that Obama was an Arab. [An 'Ayrab' was the way she pronounced it.] And McCain immediately started shaking his head. Said Obama was a good family man. I disagree with him on many issues, but McCain is a man of honor, dignity, and principles. We need MORE people like that these days.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzling Evidence View Post
    I disagree, he's a republican who actually had the stones to stand up to the likes of Pat Robertson, etc. He even took up for Obama when he was running, calling Obama an upstanding American and distancing himself from disparaging comments directed at him from his own supporters.

    Very un-Trump like.
    None of this is relevant to the consideration at hand which is the relative merits of belonging, or not, to NATO, in any way whatsoever.

  3. #13
    Veteran Member Panzareta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    None of this is relevant to the consideration at hand which is the relative merits of belonging, or not, to NATO, in any way whatsoever.
    Except when you look at the character of those who have a history of supporting NATO and those who were against the resolution.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01, Friday13 and jacobfitcher

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    He is certainly much more of a military hawk than I am. In post #7, publius3 calls him a 'paleoconservative' and I think that is a very accurate description. I think America is suffering from a bad case of imperial overstretch. McCain would disagree with that. And yet I certainly think that NATO is still necessary. Russia has retreated, publius3 also says. Well, the Soviet Empire obviously collapsed, but Vladimir Putin is on record as saying that was the "biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century", and there is NO reason to doubt that he believes exactly that. Russia today is a revanchist power. The lashing out of a dying empire is an exceptionally dangerous thing, and especially under a hyper-aggressive leader such as Putin. He wants very much to resurrect if not the Soviet Empire, at least the old Czarist Empire. Putin has recently achieved one of the most cherished strategic objectives of Czarist Russia, of obtaining a permanent base in the Mediterranean, with his new Syrian client state, and Trump is helping him with that. Some will object that Syria is not a 'new' client state of Russia, but Syria is now more firmly in the grip of Russia than ever before. Assad owes his entire existence, his very life, to Russia.
    But Europe is capable of dealing with this. Europe isn't just a little bit stronger. They're ALOT stronger actually in every measurable military category.

    In fact if the US withdrew from Europe and Europe spent what they're supposed to be spending on defense, 2% of GDP, the additional European forces would quadruple the departing US forces.

    There is NO contribution the US is willing to make that the Europeans CAN'T make by simply taxing their people and their companies. And there is no rational reason for that unconscionable burden to fall on American taxpayers.
    Last edited by publius3; 10th July 2018 at 05:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    But Europe is capable of dealing with this. Europe isn't just a little bit stronger. They're ALOT stronger actually in every measurable military category.

    In fact if the US withdrew from Europe and Europe spent what they're supposed to be spending on defense, 2% of GDP, the additional European forces would quadruple the departing US forces.

    There is NO contribution the US is willing to make that the Europeans CAN'T make by simply taxing their people and their companies. And there is no rational reason for that unconscionable burden to fall on American taxpayers.
    Do you think were in Europe just for their benefit?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Do you think were in Europe just for their benefit?
    The war mongers always find a nail to pound on.

  7. #17
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    Good people have bad ideas.
    Bad people also have bad ideas. Trump is a bad person.

    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    People like John McCain are stuck in yesterday.
    People like Donald Trump are stuck in their own reflections.

  8. #18
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Yes. That was a shining moment for John McCain, when one of his own supporters said that Obama was an Arab. [An 'Ayrab' was the way she pronounced it.] And McCain immediately started shaking his head. Said Obama was a good family man. I disagree with him on many issues, but McCain is a man of honor, dignity, and principles. We need MORE people like that these days.
    Were it not for McCain's choice of running mate in 2008, it would have been a stellar election, with many more people on the fence. His selection of Palin sealed Obama's victory.
    Thanks from jacobfitcher, EnigmaO01 and BigLeRoy

  9. #19
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister B View Post
    John McCain is an American patriot and hero. Those guys aren't.
    His family sure... that guy is a traitor.

  10. #20
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    His family sure... that guy is a traitor.
    Horsehockey. Trump is more a traitor than McCain, by far.

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