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Thread: Senate overwhelmingly passes resolution supporting NATO...as Trump attacks continue

  1. #51
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    I agree with all of that.

    At this point I have upset a lot of Democrats, but listened to the clip of Trump and the German 3 times this morning to verify what I heard.

    Trump is right that we are providing security to these Countries while they invest in their own Countries!

    This has been ongoing since the Marshall Plan after WW2! While we poured more money into those Countries protection they have not given their share.

    The Russian said,” the pipeline deal with Russia was before his time and he had been fighting it since taking office.

    Trump is an ignorant bully, but if Democrats do not wake up,realize where this anger that gave us Trump is coming from we are going to lose again!

    Bad Trade bills,starting with NAFTA, cheating by other Countries while our Government does nothing has created an anger that gave us Trump!

    Until we understand that, Democrats are going to lose.

    The party has developed a victim, Special Interest Party. We need to deal with it, instead of going off at Republicans and Trump! We are feeding them.
    I don't agree that NAFTA was a bad trade treaty, MaryAnne. We benefit from trading with our neighbors Canada and Mexico, contrary to what Donald Trump will tell you. International trade is almost always a positive sum, win-win game; it is not the zero-sum game that Mr. Trump quite mistakenly thinks it is. That is the view of a long-time casino owner, which of course is what Mr. Trump was, in his former life, which is where he should have remained.
    Thanks from BoiseBo

  2. #52
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets View Post
    Careful MA, you might turn into a blue dog.
    Jets, I have always faced reality. I have listened to this anger for 50 years now. That does not mean I support Trump or Republicans. I do understand why so many backed Trump.

    While Democrats are whining and bleating this makes Trump’s base stronger. Democrats need to realize this!

    Because I believe in what Democrats stand for. That will never change. But I also reserve the right to say when they are wrong!
    Thanks from Jets and bajisima

  3. #53
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    I agree with all of that.

    At this point I have upset a lot of Democrats, but listened to the clip of Trump and the German 3 times this morning to verify what I heard.

    Trump is right that we are providing security to these Countries while they invest in their own Countries!

    This has been ongoing since the Marshall Plan after WW2! While we poured more money into those Countries protection they have not given their share.

    The Russian said, the pipeline deal with Russia was before his time and he had been fighting it since taking office.

    Trump is an ignorant bully, but if Democrats do not wake up,realize where this anger that gave us Trump is coming from we are going to lose again!

    Bad Trade bills,starting with NAFTA, cheating by other Countries while our Government does nothing has created an anger that gave us Trump!

    Until we understand that, Democrats are going to lose.

    The party has developed a victim, Special Interest Party. We need to deal with it, instead of going off at Republicans and Trump! We are feeding them.
    Very true. While the US spent decades protecting and aiding their protection, our defense budget blew out of proportion while Europe focused on great healthcare, great infrastructure and education. Now we are broke and in disrepair. Time for the US to focus on its people and Europe to pay more.

  4. #54
    A Blue Dog Jets Fan Jets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Jets, I have always faced reality. I have listened to this anger for 50 years now. That does not mean I support Trump or Republicans. I do understand why so many backed Trump.

    While Democrats are whining and bleating this makes Trump’s base stronger. Democrats need to realize this!

    Because I believe in what Democrats stand for. That will never change. But I also reserve the right to say when they are wrong!
    Sounds like we are on the same page for all intended purposes.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    I see no reason for Germany,or any other European Country using their own money to defend themselves.

    I do not think we should leave NATO! I do think we need to protect ourselves. That is where Democrats and the ignorant pundits on the MSM have gone off the track. The media gave us Trump,and the Iraq war that is never ending.
    Eventually the fiscal restraints will compel us to cut defense spending. Its really just a question of when. When we do our military commitments will necessarily be cut as well. Once that happens we can remain an honorary member of NATO for all I care, but there will be a fiscal reckoning eventually.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    I don't agree that NAFTA was a bad trade treaty, MaryAnne. We benefit from trading with our neighbors Canada and Mexico, contrary to what Donald Trump will tell you. International trade is almost always a positive sum, win-win game; it is not the zero-sum game that Mr. Trump quite mistakenly thinks it is. That is the view of a long-time casino owner, which of course is what Mr. Trump was, in his former life, which is where he should have remained.
    The fact still remains that middle of America and unions dont view NAFTA as favorable. They saw plants close and move to Mexico. Its all about the optics and while NAFTA may be a great idea, it needs to be reformed. Even many middle American democrats like Sherrod Brown, Amy Klobuchar and Tammy Baldwin are on board with tariffs and reformed our trade agreements. Their constituents in the rust belt want it.

  7. #57
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    I don't agree that NAFTA was a bad trade treaty, MaryAnne. We benefit from trading with our neighbors Canada and Mexico, contrary to what Donald Trump will tell you. International trade is almost always a positive sum, win-win game; it is not the zero-sum game that Mr. Trump quite mistakenly thinks it is. That is the view of a long-time casino owner, which of course is what Mr. Trump was, in his former life, which is where he should have remained.
    But you have not seen the reality of the anger of workers who lost their jobs,watching factories close,going to Mexico,China or Canada!

    I have watched that anger grow as millions lost good paying jobs,worried abou the future of their families.

    Good things have come from exports. I realize that. I also understand the anger of the worker.

    It is easy to sit back and look at the big picture. I understand that. Angry, underemployed people do not want to hear what you,or I are saying!

    They think Trump will fix things. Until we understand that anger,we are not going to win. The propaganda machine feeds off fear.
    Thanks from bajisima

  8. #58
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    The fact still remains that middle of America and unions dont view NAFTA as favorable. They saw plants close and move to Mexico. Its all about the optics and while NAFTA may be a great idea, it needs to be reformed. Even many middle American democrats like Sherrod Brown, Amy Klobuchar and Tammy Baldwin are on board with tariffs and reformed our trade agreements. Their constituents in the rust belt want it.
    Sherrod Brown has always supported Manufacturing,and Ohio.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Yeah, and it was also 'not our problem' when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.....
    England and France now have nuclear weapons.....

  10. #60
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by publius3 View Post
    Eventually the fiscal restraints will compel us to cut defense spending. Its really just a question of when. When we do our military commitments will necessarily be cut as well. Once that happens we can remain an honorary member of NATO for all I care, but there will be a fiscal reckoning eventually.
    We have already reached that point. The ever benevolent UNCLE SAM is gone. We are in a massive debt crisis.

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