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Thread: The wit and wisdom of Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ)

  1. #1
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    The wit and wisdom of Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ)

    Maybe this belongs in the 'political humor' section, but this exchange (between Mike Barnacle and Rep. Shadegg) is simply priceless!

    BARNICLE: What about the fact that unemployment benefits pumped into the economy are an immediate benefit to the economy? ImmediateÖ

    SHADEGG: No, theyíre not! Unemployed people hire people? Really? I didnít know that.

    BARNICLE: Unemployed people spend money Congressman, ícause they have no money.

    SHADEGG: Aha! So your answer is itís the spending of money that drives the economy and I donít think thatís right. Itís the creation of jobs that drives the economyÖActually, the truth is the unemployed will spend as little of that money as they possibly can. Job creators create jobs.

    BARNICLE: Have you ever been unemployed? Have you ever been unemployed?

    SHADEGG: Yes, I have.

    BARNICLE: What did you do with the money? Save it?

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    I think his point is that if there were no jobs, the government could not keep the economy going by providing unlimited unemployment benefits. It seems to me he believes that the government should be working on creating a means that will allow people to find jobs other than spending money on paying them to not work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    I think his point is that if there were no jobs, the government could not keep the economy going by providing unlimited unemployment benefits.
    In the long term, I couldn't agree more. In the short term, unemployment benefits are the single most effective stimulus to the economy... and it's not merely my opinion, but the results of CBO research, as well as the opinion of most economists.

    But more importantly, the US has not failed to extend unemployment benefits in the midst of high unemployment (above 7.5%) in the past 60 years. Christmas is weeks away.... common sense and ordinary concern for others dictates that we desperately need to extend unemployment benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    It seems to me he believes that the government should be working on creating a means that will allow people to find jobs other than spending money on paying them to not work.
    We ALL believe that.... but ideology doesn't put food on the table, pay the mortgage, or even put a lump of coal in a Christmas stocking. If there was another way to prevent hardship this holiday season, and another way to somehow miraculously create enough jobs for people who need them, I'd be all ears.

    I find it pretty distressing that this Congressman doesn't understand that the economy can't possibly recover until there's money in the hands of consumers, who buy the stuff that create the jobs in the first damn place!

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    See that is just a difference of philosophy.

    I believe that at some point people have to do more than bare minimum. They have to not feel so secure that our government will ALWAYS give them a paycheck regardless of how long they stay unemployed.

    I don't believe that unemployment is a 'stimulus' to the economy, especially when said unemployment is borrowed money in the first place. Who and how do you think that money is going to get paid back?

    Well I'll tell you one way, and why so many are against raising taxes on the upper class. While the upper class is busy paying more taxes to give the unemployed even longer time to not work, when they come in to the store to pay for their goods, it is that business owner that is going to pay more to provide that. How does that 'stimulate' anything?

    'Borrowed' unemployment being a stimulus is a falsehood. It is misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    See that is just a difference of philosophy.
    No doubt about THAT!

    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    I believe that at some point people have to do more than bare minimum. They have to not feel so secure that our government will ALWAYS give them a paycheck regardless of how long they stay unemployed.
    I completely agree... with the exception of highly unusual circumstances, like the situation we are in now. Unemployment benefits have regualrly been extended when unemployment gets very high... it's been done for six decades!... and it never resulted in any permanent expectations. Part of this is a very unfair characterization of unemployed people as being lazy, shiftless, and content to live off the gov't tit at a low level.... I know a number of unemployed people (myself included, in a sense, because I'm a partner in a technology startup that hasn't paid a salary since we incorporated 16 months ago), and NONE of them fit that description... EVERY ONE of them desperately wants to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    I don't believe that unemployment is a 'stimulus' to the economy, especially when said unemployment is borrowed money in the first place. Who and how do you think that money is going to get paid back?
    Then you're in disagreement with MANY, MANY economists. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with them... other than the fact that these guys collectively know a lot more about the subject than you or me.

    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    Well I'll tell you one way, and why so many are against raising taxes on the upper class. While the upper class is busy paying more taxes to give the unemployed even longer time to not work, when they come in to the store to pay for their goods, it is that business owner that is going to pay more to provide that. How does that 'stimulate' anything?
    Actually, 'so many' are not opposed to raising taxes on the upper class... recent polls indicate that a palpable majority of the country agree with Obama, on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    'Borrowed' unemployment being a stimulus is a falsehood. It is misleading.
    Your fight is with MANY economists, not me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidetracker View Post



    Your fight is with MANY economists, not me.
    Actually, my fight is with people that listen to partisan arguments rather than common sense.

    If we can agree that in this discussion when we refer to the economy we basically are referring to gdp? At least that is where I am coming from.

    Here is the common sense approach. Say you are struggling to pay bills. You have five bills and you owe a total of ten grand. You have one credit card that you pay nothing on. In order to pay your bills that month you borrow that money by putting it on the credit card. In the end there is no stimulus there. There is nothing gained and your net worth is now going to be less because you are now going to be paying interest on that credit card in which you weren't before.

    Please explain to me how this is wrong? The bigger picture looks exactly the same only instead of an indivdiuals credit rating being destroyed, now a whole country's credit worthiness is being destroyed.

  7. #7
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    All i know is when i was on underemployment(not long at all) I spent very little. Just paid the bills, food and grocery. Nothing extra. movies, shopping. none of that.

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    What the economists also state is that for every one dollar borrowed that 2 dollars are spent.....what gets me is why are they looking for a pick up in spending from an area that people obviously need to be saving their money, paying their bills, and buying food for their families. I am not saying thats not what these people are doing.....I just cannot see economists looking to squeeze money out of rocks.....

    Btw did you see how he kept avoiding Scarborough's question on if Palin was qualified to be President? LMAO........
    Last edited by Midwest Media Critic; 30th November 2010 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Media Critics View Post
    What the economists also state is that for every one dollar borrowed that 2 dollars are spent.....what gets me is why are they looking for a pick up in spending from an area that people obviously need to be saving their money, paying their bills, and buying food for their families. I am not saying thats not what these people are doing.....I just cannot see economists looking to squeeze money out of rocks.....

    Btw did you see how he kept avoiding Scarborough's question on if Palin was qualified to be President? LMAO........

    Okay thanks, so now you helped me clarify my point in another thread. So it costs the U.S. 700 bucks to give Joe unemployed a check for 350 bucks. How can this 'stimulate' the economy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by metheron View Post
    Okay thanks, so now you helped me clarify my point in another thread. So it costs the U.S. 700 bucks to give Joe unemployed a check for 350 bucks. How can this 'stimulate' the economy?
    Where does the other 350 bucks go? It's going into the economy somewhere even if it is into the paycheck of the government employee pushing the paperwork.

    I'm not a finance expert, but do know enough about this issue from history that it may be several years before the experts will be able to ascertain the full effectiveness of the Stimulus bill. OTOH, the Congressional Budget Office usually does a good job of sticking to the facts.

    History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes | Jay Bookman
    Jay Bookman
    History will record TARP, stimulus as major successes

    11:24 am November 30, 2010, by Jay

    The much-reviled TARP — that socialistic, hugely expensive, $700 billion monument to foolish government intervention — will end up costing the federal government a grand total of about $25 billion, the Congressional Budget Office now estimates.

    Among other things, TARP also happened to save Wall Street from total collapse, prevented a slide into global economic depression and — oh yeah — helped preserve about a million jobs at Chrysler and GM.

    No, it wasn’t perfect. Nothing cobbled together in such haste could have been perfect. But history will note two important things about TARP:

    1.) It was an enormous economic success story;

    2.) Those who guaranteed its failure, bitterly fought its passage and continue to belittle it have somehow managed to turn their opposition into political gold.

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