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Thread: Gay soldiers subpoena Obama

  1. #1
    Senior Member Granite's Avatar
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    Gay soldiers subpoena Obama

    The gay soldiers arrested outside the White House protesting "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" will annouce today that they're demanding that President Obama testify in their trial on minor civil disobedience charges.

    Their novel argument: Obama himself called on gay rights advocates to pressure him, so they were just following orders.

    "Don't Ask" has energized gay rights activists frustrated with the White House's deliberate pace, even as Democratic leaders are frustrated with continued protests, as repeal is on track for next year.

    The subpoena in the defense of Lieutenant Dan Choi and Captain James Pietrangelo’s

    As the advisory puts it,

    The subpoena seeks to compel the testimony of President Barack Obama who has, on several occasions as President and Commander in Chief (and previously as a Senator and Presidential Candidate) called on the LGBT community to "pressure" him to change the DADT law and policy, thus allowing gay service members to serve their country openly and honorably.

    The subpoena of the President is necessary for the defense to prove that Defendants were following and obeying lawful orders or directives by their President and Commander in Chief, and were therefore under an obligation and authority to act as they did in order to pressure him - in a non-violent, visible way - on this important public issue. In addition, these statements support the contention that Defendants were acting out of necessity, in order to prevent discrimination and greater harm to gay service members now serving.
    Gay soldiers subpoena Obama - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

    More detail from their lawyers here: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM15...ense_memo.html
    LOL!!

    This ought to be a lesson to Obama...: Be careful of your rhetoric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunne View Post
    LOL!!

    This ought to be a lesson to Obama...: Be careful of your rhetoric.
    That is one of the most frivilous lawsuits ever. Silly.

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    Senior Member Granite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawneeMoon View Post
    That is one of the most frivilous lawsuits ever. Silly.
    I quite agree, except this is not a lawsuit...it's a criminal defense.

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    Senior Member Shooterman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawneeMoon View Post
    That is one of the most frivilous lawsuits ever. Silly.
    It's a queer one, alright.

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    Conservatively Liberal NiteGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunne View Post
    LOL!!

    This ought to be a lesson to Obama...: Be careful of your rhetoric.
    Maybe, maybe not. Did Omaba tell these guys to "pressure" him and his administration by committing illegal acts? I seriously doubt that.

    There are all kinds of pressure that cold have been brought to bear without the necessity of getting themselves arrested. If you're going to hold a protest march or rally, for example, that's fine. Even if the President were to suggest such a rally or march however, that does not absolve the protesters of responsibility for failing to get a permit for their march, or in following any lawful orders from police conceerning their march or rally. These guys, and these guys alone decided to take the actions they took, and should be held accountable.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Granite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiteGuy View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. Did Omaba tell these guys to "pressure" him and his administration by committing illegal acts? I seriously doubt that.

    There are all kinds of pressure that cold have been brought to bear without the necessity of getting themselves arrested. If you're going to hold a protest march or rally, for example, that's fine. Even if the President were to suggest such a rally or march however, that does not absolve the protesters of responsibility for failing to get a permit for their march, or in following any lawful orders from police conceerning their march or rally. These guys, and these guys alone decided to take the actions they took, and should be held accountable.
    I'll leave it up to the lawyers to hash this stuff out.

    I just find it hilarious on a couple of levels. Obama reaps the unintended consequences of his rhetoric. And the idiotic protesters thinking they can blame their action on Obama. Plus, you got to remember...these protesters and Obama are on the same side.

    :0

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    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    I admire these guys. Breaking the law when the law is unjust is a prerogative of every American. It is a tragedy every time a member of the military gets kicked out in disgrace simply for who they choose to sleep with, regardless of the character of their service or their achievements/contributions they made while in. Obama has been in office for two years and has completely failed to bring about this campaign promise, to get this backwards and idiotic policy repealed. If he and his cohorts find the people who want to hold him to account on that a nuisance or unpleasant, tough shit. Each and every member of the military on a basic valuation constitutes one of the best Americans. You have let them down, Mr. President.

    Congress should not only act to repeal the law, but offer full reinstatement to any member discharged under the policy in the last five years, with the proper provisions (i.e. refresher training as necessary). They owe it to them.

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    These people are just your typical Teap party idiots looking to distract from the problems Obama needs to fix.......... and is fixing

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    Established Member GrumpyOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I admire these guys. Breaking the law when the law is unjust is a prerogative of every American. It is a tragedy every time a member of the military gets kicked out in disgrace simply for who they choose to sleep with, regardless of the character of their service or their achievements/contributions they made while in. Obama has been in office for two years and has completely failed to bring about this campaign promise, to get this backwards and idiotic policy repealed. If he and his cohorts find the people who want to hold him to account on that a nuisance or unpleasant, tough shit. Each and every member of the military on a basic valuation constitutes one of the best Americans. You have let them down, Mr. President.

    Congress should not only act to repeal the law, but offer full reinstatement to any member discharged under the policy in the last five years, with the proper provisions (i.e. refresher training as necessary). They owe it to them.
    Yeah, to hell with what the military thinks. How about coed barracks while we're at it. Why let the homos have the advantage of partners in their tents/racks.... What a joke.

  10. #10
    Civis americanus borealis Singularity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOM
    Yeah, to hell with what the military thinks.
    Majority opinion does not supersede individual rights, especially in the military, which is not a democracy. Besides, the current military leadership has publicly endorsed repeal.

    The policy should not be to kick out those who are unable to hide who they are, it should be to show the door to anyone who can't accept who their comrades are in a way that doesn't affect them or the military. This turns the unit cohesion argument on its head... the problem is not gays, it is people who cannot accept gays. That is their fault, and they should be the ones getting kicked out, the same as any troop who declares that they will not serve with those (insert racial or sexual epithet here).


    How about coed barracks while we're at it.
    The issues are apples and oranges, but I'm personally not opposed to this idea on a moral sense. On a practical sense, it really isn't workable.

    Why let the homos have the advantage of partners in their tents/racks.... What a joke.
    You seem to be confused as to exactly what repealing DADT will do. It will not permit troops to sleep with their partners in communal barracks and other housing. The playing field will just be leveled between heteros and homos... they'll be able to answer the question "yes, I'm gay" without losing their job. And please don't get into how this is going to disrupt "the mission" or anything like that. The majority of U.S. allied nations have had open homos in the service for years and have had no such problems... it is simply baseless.

    Never mind that this is the exact same argument that was made against racial integration. Never mind that it was made when they let women in.

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