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Thread: France vs. Turkey

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    France vs. Turkey


    Genocide Bill Angers Turks as It Passes in France
    By SCOTT SAYARE and SEBNEM ARSU
    Published: January 23, 2012

    PARIS — Relations between France and Turkey dipped to a nadir as the French Senate approved a bill late Monday criminalizing the denial of officially recognized genocides, including the Armenian genocide begun in 1915.

    Turkey’s prime minister, anticipating the bill’s passage, called the move “incomprehensible” and pledged to “take steps.” Turkey has already suspended military cooperation, bilateral political agreement and economic contracts with France over the bill, and on Monday raised the possibility of withdrawing support for Euronews, an international news network based in France, in which Turkey’s national radio and television network holds a 15.5 percent stake.

    After lengthy debate, the Senate voted 127 to 86 in favor of the legislation, while hundreds of Turks and Armenians demonstrated outside. If signed into law by President Nicolas Sarkozy, the legislation would call for up to one year in prison and a fine of about $58,000 for those who deny an officially recognized genocide. The bill does not make specific reference to the estimated 1.5 million Armenians slaughtered under the Ottoman Turks, but France recognizes only those deaths and the Holocaust as genocides and already specifically bans Holocaust denial.

    In Turkey, the public affirmation of the Armenian genocide is treated as a crime, on the premise that it is an insult to Turkish identity. In March, the writer Orhan Pamuk was fined about $3,670 by a Turkish court for his statement in a Swiss newspaper that Turkey had killed “30,000 Kurds and one million Armenians.”

    Turkey contends that Armenians were not the victims of systematic killings and argues that no more than 500,000 Armenians died, noting that many Turks also perished during those years of war. Thousands of Turks protested the bill in a demonstration in Paris on Saturday.

    Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, warned of “permanent sanctions” if the bill passed, calling it a “black stain” on France.

    On Monday he told reporters in the Turkish capital, Ankara, “If each parliament takes decisions containing its own views of history and implements them, a new era of Inquisition will be opened in Europe.”

    While the legislation was widely backed by lawmakers from Mr. Sarkozy’s party as well as the opposition, a number of French politicians charged that the government ought not seek to dictate history. Some members of the opposition have also accused Mr. Sarkozy’s party of pandering to a sizable Armenian population ahead of the presidential election this spring.

    About 500,000 French citizens claim Armenian descent, the largest such population in Europe; many have applauded the legislation. But those who claim Turkish descent number 400,000, and many have been up in arms.

    The bill, brought by a lawmaker from Mr. Sarkozy’s party, has placed the government in a delicate position at a moment when France hopes to maintain Turkish cooperation on pressing matters, including the crackdown in Syria and Iran’s nuclear program, and to keep open relations as allies within NATO. Foreign Minister Alain Juppé and Bruno Lemaire, the agriculture minister, opposed the legislation.

    In a letter to Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Sarkozy noted the legislation does not name the Armenian genocide and hoped for “reason and dialogue” with Turkey.

    While Turkey has drawn Western praise as a model of Muslim democracy, particularly in the wake of the Arab Spring, Turkish human rights advocates worry that the government has increasingly sought to repress freedom of speech and the press, jailing dozens of journalists, publishers and distributers, and buying and selling media properties.

    Armenian advocacy groups around the globe push regularly for official recognition of the genocide. Nineteen nations, including France, have granted that recognition, as has the European Union. Slovenia and Switzerland treat denial of the genocide as a crime.

    Scott Sayare reported from Paris, and Sebnem Arsu from Marseille, France.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/wo...ing-turks.html

    I understand the Russian-Armenian community had also pushed Putin's government to do the same; but Russia cannot start talking to Turkey about genocides. Russia has too many of those buried in its own history. Putin starts about the Armenians, I guarantee you Erdogan will bring up the Circassians (and we Cossacks, of course, had a prime role in the destruction of what was then a thriving little kingdom of Circassia...); the continued treatment of indigenous Northern peoples by both the government and the oil and natural gas companies (and diamond miners in Yakutia), which also could be construed as, if not genocide, forced expulsion from traditional territories, threatened cultures and lifestyles... hell... even their chronic alcoholism could be blamed on Russia, we first offered them vodka all those hundreds of years ago lol No, Russia has too many skeletons in her closets to join this. Though, really, so does France. They spilled plenty of blood in Algeria alone... Which makes me ask who exactly is Sarkozy to condemn others for historic genocides?

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    The French didn't commit genocide in Algeria (indeed, more blood was probably after they left) and hopefully this will make the Turks mad enough that they will stop trying to join the E.U. That said, French speech laws are disturbing to say the least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    The French didn't commit genocide in Algeria (indeed, more blood was probably after they left) and hopefully this will make the Turks mad enough that they will stop trying to join the E.U. That said, French speech laws are disturbing to say the least.
    Well, Turkey is already in NATO. Why not the EU? Because they are Muslim? Well, Albania is a EU candidate, and they are Muslim (though only marginally, most are not very religious, at least those that I know).

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Well, Turkey is already in NATO. Why not the EU? Because they are Muslim? Well, Albania is a EU candidate, and they are Muslim (though only marginally, most are not very religious, at least those that I know).
    Europeans don't want Turkey in the E.U. for obvious reasons. Not the least of which is that the west will be swamped by Turks and just about anyone else who makes it into Turkey. Moreover, Turkey is not a European country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D
    The French didn't commit genocide in Algeria (indeed, more blood was probably after they left) and hopefully this will make the Turks mad enough that they will stop trying to join the E.U. That said, French speech laws are disturbing to say the least.
    Copy that, D. Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Turkey is not a European country.
    That depends how you define European doesn't it?



    Not European enough for you?

    P.S. That is my father, in my new avatar, in case anyone wondered lol

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    The chick on the bottom left is cute.

    Turks come in a wide variety of phenotypes unlike say...Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister D View Post
    Turks come in a wide variety of phenotypes unlike say...Europeans.
    Oh? You have not been to London lately, have you?



    "West" does not stand for just "White" anymore, mate lol

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    Europeans tend to come in one color. Hey, just ask them. Son, Europe isn't Canada. You do realize that most Europeans share my perspective regarding Turkey, right?

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    You are right about one thing. "Western" no longer means white or European. It refers to the globalist policies and ideology of the US government and their European lackeys.

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