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Thread: Voter fraud, not suppression, is real

  1. #1
    Senior Member MGunner's Avatar
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    Voter fraud, not suppression, is real

    2012 Tuesday: Voter fraud, not suppression, is real

    11:05 am August 7, 2012, by Kyle Wingfield

    It’s an election year, so we’re being treated to the usual back-and-forth about whether requiring voters to show a photo ID at the polls is an attempt to suppress voting or just voter fraud.

    U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder — never hesitant to politicize an issue — last month likened voter ID laws to Jim Crow-era poll taxes that suppress minority voting. Of course, neither he nor any plaintiff in a court challenge to a voter ID laws has produced any evidence that suppression has taken place. I’ve always thought it is insulting to minorities to suggest they are incapable, or unmotivated, or whatever, when it comes to obtaining a free, state-issued photo ID.

    On the contrary: Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp noted in a recent interview that since the General Assembly passed our voter ID law in 2006, the number of minority voters has soared — between both the 2004 and 2008 presidential elections, and the 2006 and 2010 gubernatorial elections. That’s strong evidence against the idea that the law is suppressing voting by minorities. (H/t: Georgia Tipsheet)

    Critics of voter ID requirements argue that voter fraud is non-existent, and that champions of these laws are trying to solve a non-problem. A new book by two leading supporters of voter ID laws aims to take away that argument, too.

    In “Who’s Counting?”, conservative journalist John Fund and former Civil Rights Commissioner (and one-time Georgia resident) Hans von Spakovsky argue that a current U.S. senator may be in office thanks to voter fraud. Byron York explains in a Washington Examiner column about the book:

    In the ‘08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes.

    Franken and his Democratic allies dispatched an army of lawyers to challenge the results. After the first canvass, Coleman’s lead was down to 206 votes. That was followed by months of wrangling and litigation. In the end, Franken was declared the winner by 312 votes. He was sworn into office in July 2009, eight months after the election.

    During the controversy a conservative group called Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons — all ineligible to vote — who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race.

    Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted — not just accused, but convicted — of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. “The numbers aren’t greater,” the authors say, “because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and ‘knowingly’ voted unlawfully.” The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.

    York adds: “With 1,099 examples identified by Minnesota Majority, and with evidence suggesting that felons, when they do vote, strongly favor Democrats, it doesn’t require a leap to suggest there might one day be proof that Al Franken was elected on the strength of voter fraud.”

    At the very least, those 1,099 examples — and 177 convictions, so far — represent far more evidence in favor of voter ID laws than opponents have ever mustered for their case.

    – By Kyle Wingfield
    2012 Tuesday: Voter fraud, not suppression, is real | Kyle Wingfield

    I cant wait for all of the spin doctors to come out of the wood work to claim that voter fraud is not real. Idiots

  2. #2
    Senior Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Thing of it is whether you think there is fraud or you don't, or you think there is suppression it doesn't matter. Voter ID is here in many states (including mine) and unless the SC rules it unconstitutional, it is here to stay and in fact I bet within a decade we have either a national ID card (can be used for healthcare as well) or every state will have their own ID card. All European countries have them as well. What needs to be done is for those states to ask for volunteers and get people out to get IDs to everybody that can't normally get them. Here we have volunteers going door to door and you show them the required forms and you get a state ID, free. We also have local photographers volunteering time to take photos in nursing homes, colleges and neighborhoods. We have taken an all out effort to make this work. It is better to step up to the plate ahead of time than wait until after the fact and it is too late to do anything but whine about it.

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    Senior Member Stefan Bandera's Avatar
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    Gunno is right -Republican Indiana Secretary Of State Convicted Of Voter Fraud

    Gunno is right there is rampant voter fraud and here is the proof:

    Indiana Secretary of State Convicted of Voter Fraud | ThinkProgress

    Republican Indiana Secretary Of State Convicted Of Voter Fraud

  4. #4
    Senior Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Whether there is fraud or not, it is a fact of life for many of us in the "new world."

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    Senior Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Just gotta put up this classic video of "no such thing as voter fraud."

    Enjoy


  6. #6
    Agua pa' la gente.... Rasselas's Avatar
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    If fraud at the voting booth is rampant, arrest someone. How many are there? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? This is a crime, and it's pretty easy to prosecute--lots of witnesses and paperwork. Arrest some people.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Bandera View Post
    Gunno is right there is rampant voter fraud and here is the proof:

    Indiana Secretary of State Convicted of Voter Fraud | ThinkProgress

    Republican Indiana Secretary Of State Convicted Of Voter Fraud
    Though I've posted it a couple of times recently, I never grow tired of it...
    Allow me to reciprocate with a Federal Case

    You cite a case where one individual is guilty of fraud, while I cite another which demonstrates systemic and coordinated disenfranchisement.

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    Agua pa' la gente.... Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparsely View Post
    Though I've posted it a couple of times recently, I never grow tired of it...
    Allow me to reciprocate with a Federal Case

    You cite a case where one individual is guilty of fraud, while I cite another which demonstrates systemic and coordinated disenfranchisement.
    Of course, the single individual is an elected official in charge of the general elections in an entire (fairly large) state, while your case involves a party official in charge of primary elections in a county of 12,000 persons.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Of course, the single individual is an elected official in charge of the general elections in an entire (fairly large) state, while your case involves a party official in charge of primary elections in a county of 12,000 persons.
    Again, the charges against Mr. White were specific of his own behaviour and not a charge of systemic fraud as was found to be true in the case of Mr. Brown et al.
    Mr. White merely (according to the courts ruling) submitted a false ballot, voted in the wrong precinct, and committed perjury.
    The US v. Brown case went much further, finding the tactics employed by the party at large, under the direction of Mr. Brown, to be manipulating "volunteer" community workers along with harassment and intimidation of potential voters at large along with the discriminatory practices confirmed by the court.
    Last edited by sparsely; 10th August 2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason: clarity

  10. #10
    Agua pa' la gente.... Rasselas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparsely View Post
    Again, the charges against Mr. White were specific of his own behaviour and not a charge of systemic fraud as was found to be true in the case of Mr. Brown et al.
    Mr. White merely (according to the courts ruling) submitted a false ballot, voted in the wrong precinct, and committed perjury.
    The US v. Brown case went much further, finding the tactics employed by the party at large, under the direction of Mr. Brown, to be manipulating "volunteer" community workers along with harassment and intimidation of potential voters at large along with the discriminatory practices confirmed by the court.
    I'm not suggesting Brown and company were innocent, nor am I denying the seriousness of their infractions. It's notable that they were very corrupt, but small time.

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