Thread: The US just gave 85,000 foreign workers jobs in the US

Originally Posted by bajisima

Did We Just Lose 85,000 U.S. Jobs to Foreign Workers?

Of course not. First, there is no zero sum game here. The use of foreign labour can induce greater growth and therefore additional opportunity. Second, I find it most amusing how you lot whine about immigrants when you're a nation of immigrants.

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

Of course not. First, there is no zero sum game here. The use of foreign labour can induce greater growth and therefore additional opportunity. Second, I find it most amusing how you lot whine about immigrants when you're a nation of immigrants.

These are not immigrants. The companies recruit them, pay them crap and send them home. They don't stay here.

Originally Posted by bajisima

These are not immigrants. The companies recruit them, pay them crap and send them home. They don't stay here.

Migrants, use what vocab you want. Why do you think you're completely reliant on crap source? Looks like a middle class 'thanks' whinge

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

Migrants, use what vocab you want. Why do you think you're completely reliant on crap source? Looks like a middle class 'thanks' whinge

Why defend a tactic solely meant to pay workers less money? The H-1B "insourcing" is mostly within the tech field, the companies outsourcing these jobs and expanding on the domestic use of H-1B workers say there's a skills gap. This is blatantly false. Krugman points this out: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/31/op...f=opinion&_r=0

And it's even more obvious when these tech companies lay off hundreds of people at a time in favor of cheaper foreign labor: Northeast Utilities confirms IT outsourcing plan - Computerworld

A skills shortage? I think not. It's a profit grab and a way to lower overall wages in the tech field.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer...pdf?docID=6061

The STEM Crisis: Reality or Myth? - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education

These tech companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying for immigration reform so as to allow more H-1b visas not because there's a shortage of US workers but to drive down wages and make more profits hand over fist. Why you defend this is beyond me.

These tech companies go as far as to commit fraud in order to skirt around hiring domestic workers. Placing fake ads to claim there's a shortage of American tech workers and outright abusing the system as the Department of Justice has caught them doing. The problem is most assuredly far deeper than we realize:

H-1B Guest Worker Fraud and the "Lacking Skills" Scam

U.S. Accuses Infosys of 'Fraud and Abuse' in Visa Case - WSJ.com

I, Cringely So that's how H-1B visa fraud is done! - I, Cringely

I suppose the only "Middle Class Whine" going on is the fact this has been happening to "low skilled" labor for decades and no one has paid much attention to it. Wages have been attacked in the same way within the service sector and construction field. But ya, when it starts happening in the upper middle class tech industry we start seeing complaints! Anyway, this is just part of the reason productivity is increasing and wages aren't. Just part of the reason the "1%" are making and hoarding record amounts of profits. Why you defend this is beyond me. And while doing so make claims to be an advocate for labor.


And if or when tech workers wages in developing countries (for example, India) catch up to wages in the west, companies will undercut workers in India for cheap labor from a different developing country just as is now taking place in China as Chinese workers make gains in wages. Why Factories Are Leaving China - Businessweek

This is all just "comparative advantage" right? A world where capital does everything within its power to pay workers less wages! And what you've said in the past "well it opens up the work force in the west to do more advanced jobs". Like, say, in the tech industry? So when good paying jobs exist, companies outsource and "insource" cheaper labor and when people complain about it it's just "middle class whine".

And now that the construction industry is "rebounding" the large companies are complaining about a worker shortage (in the face of a decreasing South American immigrant population). There are no labor shortages in the construction field. There are millions of construction workers more than willing and more than able to bust their hump for livable wages- there's simply, now, a shortage of workers who will do the job for extremely low wages, wages one can hardly survive on. More "middle class whine" I presume? I think it has more to do with an extremely small percentage of the population squeezing labor dry for as much productivity as possible while paying out the lowest wages they can muster.

Originally Posted by Meursault

A skills shortage? I think not. It's a profit grab and a way to lower overall wages in the tech field.

Yeah yeah, nasty ole johnny foreigner trying to undercut Apple Pie eating Americans!

Show me a properly conducted empirical source that shows that these industries do not have hard to fill vacancies. I grow tired of the cretinous abuse of secondary sources.

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

Yeah yeah, nasty ole johnny foreigner trying to undercut Apple Pie eating Americans!

Show me a properly conducted empirical source that shows that these industries do not have hard to fill vacancies. I grow tired of the cretinous abuse of secondary sources.

I already did (in the post you quoted), right under the sentence you quoted.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer...pdf?docID=6061

And this is hardly a bias source or coming from some "anti neoliberal globalization" standpoint. FAIR has also excused extremely exploitative labor conditions abroad, in the same vein as Krugman (and you) have done.

Show me a properly conducted empirical source (not funded by tech companies) which shows a drastic shortage of tech workers. Once again you find yourself excusing wealth accumulation in the hands of big business while claiming to be an advocate for labor.

Originally Posted by Meursault

And this is hardly a bias source

Of course its a biased source. Its a pressure group with an axe to grind over immigration. Please present an objective source. Make sure it rejects issues of labour immobility. It should also refer directly to hard-to-fill-vacancies, given that is the standard means to assess aspects of skill shortages

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

Of course its a biased source. Its a pressure group with an axe to grind over immigration. Please present an objective source. Make sure it rejects issues of labour immobility. It should also refer directly to hard-to-fill-vacancies, given that is the standard means to assess aspects of skill shortages

Do you even know the policies FAIR advocates? They're not against outsourcing in the slightest and generally side with big business. Your criticism here is empty.

Fair Labor Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Another study?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...&embedded=true

It's obvious, to most people, whats going on. A huge influx of H-1b workers are being brought in in order to lower wages/increase profits.

Originally Posted by Meursault

Do you even know the policies FAIR advocates?

They aren't an objective organisation (e.g. "American workers are the best and most productive in the world. They are eager to work. What they need is the opportunity to compete for jobs at fair wages, not unfair competition created by massive guest worker programs. In addition, just because we could benefit from some skilled immigration doesn’t mean we should rubber stamp visas for every applicant with certain skills"). Of course they will present biased findings

Another study?

Another? You haven't presented one yet. The pressure group source was pants. Crikey, did it even use the word vacancy?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...&embedded=true

It's obvious, to most people, whats going on. A huge influx of H-1b workers are being brought in in order to lower wages/increase profits.

Its obvious that google very badly. Another crap source! No sense of objectivity, nor a methodology capable of actually assessing skill shortage issues. There has to be reference to hard-to-fill-vacancies.

Originally Posted by Æthelfrith

Its obvious that google very badly. Another crap source! No sense of objectivity, nor a methodology capable of actually assessing skill shortage issues. There has to be reference to hard-to-fill-vacancies.

What are you on about? Yes, the study was located using google search. Nothing will satisfy your lame ego. What's your beef with the liberal leaning EPI? A think tank which is largely funded by labor unions, Those dam pesky labor unions!

Economic Policy Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just a bunch of "middle class" nationalists seeking to keep the Indian tech workers down! If a study shows evidence contrary to what you believe then, well, it's just not an objective study!