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Thread: Hey fans of outsourcing and automation... where are the new jobs coming from?

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    Hey fans of outsourcing and automation... where are the new jobs coming from?

    Any idea on where we're going to find new good paying jobs for our youth?

    What are you going to do when those jobless masses decide they're tired of the lack of jobs and start rioting?

    Where's the jobs?

    Where's the jobs?

    WHERE ARE THOSE JOBS YOU PROMISED IN THIS NEW HIGH TECH ECONOMY?

    UN Chief Alarmed by Rising Global Unemployment | Al Jazeera America

    Millions of US, EU youth are neither working nor learning | Pew Research Center

    Global Youth Unemployment Rate Rising Rapidly

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    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    This is inevitable...what we need to do is figure out if we can replace those jobs with other new jobs and then prepare for those jobs instead (diverting many education and training programs) OR we find we cant actually replace many of those jobs with new ones...in that case we need to look at the idea of the "citizens paycheck" and start allocating a base min of resources to each person and then allow people to make "more" by having one of the jobs that DO exist or finding a way to create one (a business or service they create) that gives them more money.

    We cant fight these changes, we need to learn how to incorporate them...adapt..change...progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    This is inevitable...what we need to do is figure out if we can replace those jobs with other new jobs and then prepare for those jobs instead (diverting many education and training programs) OR we find we cant actually replace many of those jobs with new ones...in that case we need to look at the idea of the "citizens paycheck" and start allocating a base min of resources to each person and then allow people to make "more" by having one of the jobs that DO exist or finding a way to create one (a business or service they create) that gives them more money.

    We cant fight these changes, we need to learn how to incorporate them...adapt..change...progress.
    Trying to replace old jobs with new ones is no longer working. This much should already be painfully obvious.

    There is no replacing those jobs. Technology inherently is designed to eliminate any form of work so that the business eliminates all of its labor costs. Businesses want zero labor costs and they'll stop at nothing to achieve this. That's why slavery happened in the first place, and then later why automation was on the march even on the plantations. (The cotton gin.) Workers are by nature the biggest enemy of business - more than regulations, more than taxes.

    The problem is when you eliminate work, you also eliminate the ability to eat and obtain shelter. Jobs are the only way by which 99% of the populace will ever survive. Eliminate jobs and you have to kill off most of the human race. A population trying to survive without jobs might as well take the next step and try to survive without breathing. It's. Just. That. Important.

    As for the citizens paycheck, that's going to need to be a very large paycheck as jobs start to go away as a concept, and generations of people grow up reading about jobs in the same context as reading about dinosaurs. When nobody but the owners of natural resources is making money, where's the citizens paycheck gonna come from?

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    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquelope View Post
    Trying to replace old jobs with new ones is no longer working. This much should already be painfully obvious.

    There is no replacing those jobs. Technology inherently is designed to eliminate any form of work so that the business eliminates all of its labor costs. Businesses want zero labor costs and they'll stop at nothing to achieve this. That's why slavery happened in the first place, and then later why automation was on the march even on the plantations. (The cotton gin.) Workers are by nature the biggest enemy of business - more than regulations, more than taxes.

    The problem is when you eliminate work, you also eliminate the ability to eat and obtain shelter. Jobs are the only way by which 99% of the populace will ever survive. Eliminate jobs and you have to kill off most of the human race. A population trying to survive without jobs might as well take the next step and try to survive without breathing. It's. Just. That. Important.

    As for the citizens paycheck, that's going to need to be a very large paycheck as jobs start to go away as a concept, and generations of people grow up reading about jobs in the same context as reading about dinosaurs. When nobody but the owners of natural resources is making money, where's the citizens paycheck gonna come from?
    I dont disagree that much of the "labor" is going to go away and they wont be replaced at the same pace they are lost.

    But I dont agree it means the end of us..>I dont think we have put enough effort to look at OTHER MODELS on how to accomplish "income" ie getting the resources you need and want. I think we are very quick to discount new views and havent delved enough into how it would work. The HARDEST part isnt going to be on distributing resources, it would be about GREED and those who will want policy and systems that funnel to a small percentage to live in luxury while the majority suffer in various degrees of poverty and strife, it just becomes a matter of the elite to "buffer" themselves from those masses...if we allow it to go like that, then we lose...or we can put real thought into entirely new ways to deal with these issues and solve it that way. We have the resources to do it, thats not the problem at all. The problem is what lifestyle we want, how to do that sustainably and how to distribute resources to accomplish those two things for the MOST people (some will always get more ahead than they should and some always fall through the cracks...but how do you keep that belt in the middle filled with the majority?

    I wont pretend its simple or anything, but I think we can do it...do we have the will though? Are we already too convinced of its impossibility and therefore wont even try, wont even think in that direction?.....certainly those in charge of the "public voice" these days arent going to endorse this line of thinking, they already benefit from a system that caters to the small elite percentage..they ARE the elite percentage, so the push and voice for it will have to come from the bottom and its up to us who we choose to listen to.

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    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    CM Kornbluth answers all these questions in his book, "The Marching Morons".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    I dont disagree that much of the "labor" is going to go away and they wont be replaced at the same pace they are lost.

    But I dont agree it means the end of us..>I dont think we have put enough effort to look at OTHER MODELS on how to accomplish "income"
    But...

    What other models could ever exist?
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    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquelope View Post
    But...

    What other models could ever exist?
    People have to come up with fully fleshed out models for me to point at and we havent really begun to discuss those in any mainstream way thusfar.

    I can give you examples of peices of a new models that I can see as happening in future.

    1. Obviously the one I mentioned, its a basic income that everyone gets
    2. many services are not commodities at all anymore....health, education, transportation... are good examples of this. Food can also be so heavily subsidized as a group effort, individual costs are very low
    3. companies are employee owned...you own as long as you work there (some companies have proven very profitable as the employees took over and were better for local community as well, they donated service rather than sucked resources and tax benefits from the local communities)...peoples desire to create and trade items will always generate economic activity and some things are worth subsidizing directly (such as research to advance us in numerous areas..from medical to space exploration.


    I am sure if you delve into the academic economist circles, you can find lots more...I was surprised to find out the basic income for all was a bit of an older idea than I thought! There were people who could see ahead and knew it was coming a long time...its all so star trek...we no longer work to live, we work to better ourselves. A rat race for riches isnt the one and only way to do this...maybe we are getting past the need for that.

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    More spasms from the far left wing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquelope View Post
    Any idea on where we're going to find new good paying jobs for our youth?
    Who is "we?" Why do you think "we" need to "find" jobs for other people?

    What are you going to do when those jobless masses decide they're tired of the lack of jobs and start rioting?
    I don't know, what about you?

    Where's the jobs?

    Where's the jobs?
    They is everywhere.

    WHERE ARE THOSE JOBS YOU PROMISED IN THIS NEW HIGH TECH ECONOMY?
    No one "promised" any jobs.

    Here's a question for you: what labor are you offering for sale? What are you selling? Do you have anything to offer up for sale? Anything at all? Where are the skills and abilities you promised you would develop and offer for sale? Why don't you want to sell better labor?

    Your incessant tantrums that jobs need to be conjured up out of nowhere and handed out to people seems like a symptom of emotional disturbance.
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    Established Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    You find the jobs in the new industries created while replacing old fashioned jobs.

    In practical terms: teach the kids how to code.

    Sign your kids up at code.org. Ensure that they learn this "language" as a general trait for their life... And as a qualification for a job... A good paying job.

    All the automation of the world, needs those who program the computers and machines ... An ever growing demand.

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    Hey fans of outsourcing and automation... where are the new jobs coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquelope View Post
    Trying to replace old jobs with new ones is no longer working. This much should already be painfully obvious.

    There is no replacing those jobs. Technology inherently is designed to eliminate any form of work so that the business eliminates all of its labor costs. Businesses want zero labor costs and they'll stop at nothing to achieve this.
    Try to think before you unload. Alternatives to human labor also cost money. Whatever is the better deal is what they'll typically prefer. They won't "stop at nothing to" eliminate human labor, they'll just tend toward whatever offers the better deal.

    That's why slavery happened in the first place, and then later why automation was on the march even on the plantations. (The cotton gin.) Workers are by nature the biggest enemy of business - more than regulations, more than taxes.
    Utter buffoonery as usual.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 7th February 2016 at 10:55 AM.
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