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Thread: The "fair and resonable" tax proposal

  1. #21
    Moderator libertariat720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Repeal SS, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, PPACA, EMTALA, SNAP, all of it? Really?
    You wouldn't be able to do that over night but if there was a basic income, yeah.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    You wouldn't be able to do that over night but if there was a basic income, yeah.
    A guy with Murray Rothbard in his avatar is calling for helicopter money? Now shit's getting interesting!

    It's going to be an interesting next few decades, my friend.
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  3. #23
    Moderator libertariat720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    A guy with Murray Rothbard in his avatar is calling for helicopter money? Now shit's getting interesting!

    It's going to be an interesting next few decades, my friend.
    I'm not an anarcho-capitalist, but maybe an AnCap sympathizer. The Machinery of Freedom is one of my favorite books.

  4. #24
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    These numbers are somewhat out of date but about 5 years ago there was a surprisingly strong movement to implement a VAT in the US called FairTax.org. I'm not sure if they exist any more. They did some fairly serious calculations and came up with the following.

    First, everyone, paupers and billionaires would be given a "prebate" of $25,000 each year, IIRC. Then all other taxes would be revoked and a VAT on ALL purchases would be set at 27%.

    They had calculations to show that the 27% would be revenue neutral.

    I didn't like it because the wealthy, who put their cash into offshore entities of any type, even buying a French-built yacht would escape the tax. If they included putting the VAT on purchases of investments and offshore purchases it might work but then why not just flat tax ALL income and revenue. Simpler and would amount to the same thing in the end unless people just put their money in a savings account or their mattress.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    Flat tax

    30% out of EVERYONE.... no exemptions or exceptions. If you are not paying taxes, and on entitlements.... all entitlements are cut back 30%.


    take the same skin off of everyone.
    The same skin? Do you think the family making 40k that would now have to survive on less than 30k would have to make some changes? I would bet we will then be subsidizing their healthcare and they would probably qualify for welfare programs such as food stamps. Do you think the Romney's of the country will have to tighten their belts a little since they will only be bringing home 14 million after taxes?

    You can also count on millions of elderly struggling to get by on social security now going on welfare because you cut their income by 60%. You cut it by 30% and then if everybody pays 30% with no deductions you just took 30% more. You would be skinning the poor alive and the romneys of the world would not so much as scrape their knee. Our revenue would drop drastically and welfare would soar. I don't know why I bother to reply to such ridiculously fucking stupid suggestions.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    15% is not enough.
    And taking 30 would immediately cause the poverty rate to probably double.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Liberal jackasses: "I refuse to acknowledge there is any such thing as a negative economic consequence of a too-high tax rate. Therefore I propose outrageously high tax rates on everyone who has more money than I personally feel like they need."

    Conservative jackasses: "I refuse to acknowledge there is any such thing as a negative economic or government-debt consequence of a too-low tax rate. Therefore I propose extremely low tax rates and declare government can and should simply slash its spending on anything and everything."
    There is no question that outrageously high tax rates can negatively effect the economy. In 1978 GDP was over 4% and the top rate on regular income was 70%.

  8. #28
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    If one really wants to know the biggest reason we are 20 trillion in debt all they have to do is look at this chart.





    Everyone on the right likes to say Reagan was great for cutting taxes. That's right, he cut the tax rate on the rich to 50%. What is it now?

    My proposition? Go back to the tax rates we had in 1970 and those saying we can't do that or the rich will leave I would say what the fuck were they doing here in 1970?
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So consumption taxes, property taxes and excise taxes should be illegal?
    I think anyone with any sense whatsoever knows I am talking about federal income tax rates.

    Every modern economist in the world will tell you you have that wrong/backwards, as far as the federal government is concerned. In recessionary times, the federal government wants, no, needs to run a deficit, and uses tax cuts to achieve that, including the Obama & Pals.
    You are absolutely correct! In times of recession you temporarily throw out the rule book and cut taxes and increase spending to get out of it. You don't do like the idiot right who thinks that's a good time to practice austerity. Another mantra that Reagan had right that the right seems to ignore today, the best and quickest way to get out of a recession is to buy your way out of it. You want to know why the past recession took so long to emerge from? We had a republican congress that thought it was a good idea to cut spending. The fucking stupidest thing you can do during a recession and every economist worth his salt will tell you the same thing.

    Not at the federal level we don't.
    No we don't and with the current tax rates we never will. Spending will always climb or at least be static and we can not and will not be able to cut it anywhere near what some of the jackasses on the right think we can. If you cut our revenue like you see by the chart I posted you end up with ever increasing debt. Like we have now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by libertariat720 View Post
    I like the idea of having a negative income tax and getting rid of entitlements.
    I like the idea of having a test you must pass in order to vote so we don't have complete dumbshits having any say in how our country is run.
    Thanks from NeoVsMatrix

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