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Thread: The "fair and resonable" tax proposal

  1. #61
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    A flat tax with a base deductible and as I said, an all inclusive definition of income and an elimination of deductions, IMO would work.
    see there - I know how to pay attention. would you care to comment on the proposal directly and make suggestions?

  2. #62
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    see there - I know how to pay attention. would you care to comment on the proposal directly and make suggestions?
    My posts were in response to the posts I replied to.

    As to the initial proposal, again, the devil is in the details. The one big point I have against it is that it seems to propose taxing the incomes of the very lowest level of incomes. I strongly feel a base deduction should be part of any tax plan.

    And as I said, definition of income should be all inclusive and there should be zero deductions.

    That too can be problematic in terms of a catastrophic medical situation for example, but then you start building towards your 30,000 plus page tax code.

    Is there a "best" tax system?

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    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    My posts were in response to the posts I replied to.

    As to the initial proposal, again, the devil is in the details. The one big point I have against it is that it seems to propose taxing the incomes of the very lowest level of incomes. I strongly feel a base deduction should be part of any tax plan.

    And as I said, definition of income should be all inclusive and there should be zero deductions.

    That too can be problematic in terms of a catastrophic medical situation for example, but then you start building towards your 30,000 plus page tax code.

    Is there a "best" tax system?
    well, I dunno if there is a best tax system. Americans pay 8% of their income from dollar one until 108,000 dollars to SSA and Medicare taxes. most proposals forget to include that. that tax has no exemptions or deductions. mine increases the taxes overall at a fair (I think) rate - except for the lower incomes, which get a break. at least, few can say they a larger percentage than others as all (over the limits) pay the same rate and have no deductions or exemptions. the proposal is geared to the future and the possibility that new benefits for the citizens can be financed without the need for additional taxes. it's a steep rate, and I admit that. but, it provides for benefits we should have that are currently not properly financed. is it the best - probably not. is it better than we currently have? dunno about that either.

  4. #64
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    And taking 30 would immediately cause the poverty rate to probably double.

    that is the aim.... everyone on entitlements. They are taxing the middle class into the poverty level.


    Flat tax... no exemptions or exceptions.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    There is no question that outrageously high tax rates can negatively effect the economy. In 1978 GDP was over 4% and the top rate on regular income was 70%.
    The TOP rate, a SINGLE rate, government spending, which represents the physical movement of goods and services into the public sector was significantly lower. The aggregate tax burden today is nearly 40%, in 1978 30%

  6. #66
    Established Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    well, here's your chance to discuss a new tax plan for America. now, I'm not saying this is the best tax proposal ever, it's a fair and reasonable approach to taxes. this has everybody with a stake in the system without an attempt to punish anyone else. it doesn't have a "rich tax" to unfairly attempt to re-distribute wealth. maybe it's too simple - but that's what discussions are all about.

    for all citizens:
    income is considered any compensations received from others. plain and simple. wages, stock options, payments by others for goods or services for you - all included.

    for employees:
    all compensations are taxable in excess of $ 40,000 for individuals, $60,000 for families or individuals with dependents. individuals are subject to 10% tax stating from $0 to cover medicare and medicaid up till the limit based on current standards. after the excess deductible, all compensation will be taxed at 25% in excess of such applicable excess deductible. the EITC will be eliminated. there will be no deductions or exemptions for individuals.

    for employers:
    all businesses get the $60,000 deductible. they may deduct the actual cost of labor and raw materials used in their business. they may also deduct all compensations paid to employees for benefits. they may not deduct the 10% matching contribution for social security and medicare. all income from business will also be taxed at 25% for income over the deductible.

    so, there it is. it's not a tax plan - it's a proposal for discussion.
    First question tight out of the bat:

    Do you consider money and other valuables handed down through heritage as income ?

  7. #67
    Veteran Member bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    First question tight out of the bat:

    Do you consider money and other valuables handed down through heritage as income ?
    yes. that is considered income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    well, here's your chance to discuss a new tax plan for America. now, I'm not saying this is the best tax proposal ever, it's a fair and reasonable approach to taxes. this has everybody with a stake in the system without an attempt to punish anyone else. it doesn't have a "rich tax" to unfairly attempt to re-distribute wealth. maybe it's too simple - but that's what discussions are all about.

    for all citizens:
    income is considered any compensations received from others. plain and simple. wages, stock options, payments by others for goods or services for you - all included.

    for employees:
    all compensations are taxable in excess of $ 40,000 for individuals, $60,000 for families or individuals with dependents. individuals are subject to 10% tax stating from $0 to cover medicare and medicaid up till the limit based on current standards. after the excess deductible, all compensation will be taxed at 25% in excess of such applicable excess deductible. the EITC will be eliminated. there will be no deductions or exemptions for individuals.

    for employers:
    all businesses get the $60,000 deductible. they may deduct the actual cost of labor and raw materials used in their business. they may also deduct all compensations paid to employees for benefits. they may not deduct the 10% matching contribution for social security and medicare. all income from business will also be taxed at 25% for income over the deductible.

    so, there it is. it's not a tax plan - it's a proposal for discussion.
    My first question is what will happen to revenue? I can tell you that I would form a business which would get a $60,000 deductible and then pay myself from 60,001-> up to myself as wages. So you are looking at $100K in deductions. The next question is compliance. Today, the employer is threatened with jail if he fails to report income. He has no real concern about the liability, so you have an incentive for a compliance to pay taxes. Do you still have this arrangement. Once you move to something like the Fair Tax, you dont have the neutral 3rd party.

    My guess is that you will lose a lot of revenue. How will you make it up.

    How do you value things like stock options and health benefits.

  9. #69
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    I'm talking federal taxes only. and, although I didn't state that in the opening comment, I would propose a limit on the amount states could tax their citizens.
    I am talking about federal taxes a 8-12% sales tax exempt Food and Housing (necessities)

  10. #70
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    are you saying that taxation is a method the regulate how the citizens are to conduct their personal affairs? I'm kinda confused here.
    Taxation always is a method to control peoples spending.


    Tax Credit for Hybrid cars, what was the purpose, to push peoples spending toward a hybrid car

    Charity deduction, to promote people to give to charities

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