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Thread: The old solutions to economics....won't work anymore-

  1. #41
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDozer View Post
    Now, more than ever, we need a shift to economic democracy.

    The first phase should be the Nordic model. It is the best way to organize capitalism in the 21st century. The second phase should be in crafting policy to make it easier to start worker cooperatives, community supported agriculture, and community supported utilities that can interconnect and form federations.
    I can totally see that. However, I worry that Bernie Sanders has more or less ruined that. Not intentionally but so many democrats blame him now for Trump winning that they don't want to listen to anything he says. You can see it in discussions about UHC. Many would rather preserve the ACA instead of completely putting in UHC. Even heard one democratic poster saying getting rid of the ACA "would be an insult to Pres Obama at least for awhile."

  2. #42
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDozer View Post
    Credit is driving us towards a huge crash, larger than the 2008 crash. This is being driven by ballooning student debt, as well as just personal credit card debt. Since people don't make the money that they used to, they use credit to maintain the same lifestyle, but that bill eventually comes due, and when millions in debt aren't able to make their payments, down comes the house of cards.
    Not just that but millennials have no equity built up for retirement, savings or a rainy day fund. Older gens had equity in homes that rapidly increased and gave them at least some sense of security. A home in many ways is like a bank. Without that, I worry as to how they will build an economic future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bajisima View Post
    Not just that but millennials have no equity built up for retirement, savings or a rainy day fund. Older gens had equity in homes that rapidly increased and gave them at least some sense of security. A home in many ways is like a bank. Without that, I worry as to how they will build an economic future.
    And Millennials are spending a lot less than older generations by time comparison on luxuries, or not buying things on credit in general.

    For an economy that is only held up by the continuous flow of credit, the decision to not go into debt may bankrupt the whole system, but people need to see that. Our economy is a paper tiger held up by matchsticks. A stable market economy is one in which the largest number of people are making the most money they can, and with restricted credit policy.

  4. #44
    Veteran Member bajisima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDozer View Post
    And Millennials are spending a lot less than older generations by time comparison on luxuries, or not buying things on credit in general.

    For an economy that is only held up by the continuous flow of credit, the decision to not go into debt may bankrupt the whole system, but people need to see that. Our economy is a paper tiger held up by matchsticks. A stable market economy is one in which the largest number of people are making the most money they can, and with restricted credit policy.
    Its also going to be interesting to watch the stock market over the next 25 years or so. What happens when the vast majority of boomers take out their 401Ks and retirements? Not many millennials are in the stock market nor can they afford it. What happens when millions of seniors are taking out their money all relatively at once without the next generation putting in?

  5. #45
    NWO Toilet Cleaner Blues63's Avatar
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    An excellent discussion....

    Kudos to all.

  6. #46
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    Maybe there is a deal to be made here - corporations get lower tax rates, and the peeps get a $15 minimum wage.
    Not with Republicans controlling both Houses and the Presidency, there will be no minimum wage increase or even discussion. We will be lucky if they don't attempt to eliminate it completely.

  7. #47
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    The only answer to present economical challenges is education, because low skilled jobs will be shrinking...... But what type of education and for doing what ? It is also another challenge..... At least what I see in Northern Europe is that performing companiesmake a good margin on their products or services because they are able to integrate in them a lot of know how in comparison to the energy needed to manufacture them.... And to integrate know how you have to train people to new skills....etc........etc......But there are many fields where new needs exist like energy, ecology etc.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by galatin View Post
    The only answer to present economical challenges is education, because low skilled jobs will be shrinking...... But what type of education and for doing what ? It is also another challenge..... At least what I see in Northern Europe is that performing companiesmake a good margin on their products or services because they are able to integrate in them a lot of know how in comparison to the energy needed to manufacture them.... And to integrate know how you have to train people to new skills....etc........etc......But there are many fields where new needs exist like energy, ecology etc.......
    There will not be enough highly skilled jobs either, there isn't today.
    Thanks from bajisima

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    So the question remains.

    Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. Develop a fish-catching robot, do all men eat, or do all men starve?

  10. #50
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    Certainly wrong...... You can manufacture more sophisticated products burning less energy etc.... replacing the present ones Tesla is a good example of that and electric planes in the future will probably become something common..... For that you have to make huge investments in development and these investments mean jobs. If I look at the difference between French industrial production and the Swiss one, beside industries like Airbus and some other big playes, most companies manufacturemiddle of the game products , which are not so sophisticated which as a consequence that they are directly in competition with lower wagers countries...... In Switzerland nobody can affordto produce this type of products and the result that as far as the rate of occupation is concerned, 43% in France and 59% in Switzerland. Switzerland is perhaps a tiny country but you find this kind of différences when you compare Northern Europe to moreSoutehr one.... And you have the same problem in the US, many industries sell products which are in direct competition with what is produced in less developped countries with a cheaper manpower. The question is to find a new "Frontier" with new "territories" like what came with inernet and will come with robotization.......... So better anticipate the mutations on the go than develop nostalgia about a lost Golden Age.

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