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Thread: Amazon Air Pilots Threaten Walk Out Over Low Wages

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Retirement savings for a young adult today seems like the least of their problems. They have to find a way to survive across 50, 60 years in an economy almost nobody is helping them predict, and their government is not forcing the New Wealth Makers to consider even a little bit the human needs of their workers.

    Bezos is not spending any time, trying to figure out how the workers he displaces with robots and drones avoid starving to death, and neither is anyone in DC, as far as I can see.
    That's the nature of corporate responsibility nowadays. It's all about minimizing cost, maximizing profit, protecting senior leadership (and their extraordinary benefits) and to hell with the rank and file employees.

    Cheers,

    Bourne
    Thanks from Madeline

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Retirement savings for a young adult today seems like the least of their problems. They have to find a way to survive across 50, 60 years in an economy almost nobody is helping them predict, and their government is not forcing the New Wealth Makers to consider even a little bit the human needs of their workers.

    Bezos is not spending any time, trying to figure out how the workers he displaces with robots and drones avoid starving to death, and neither is anyone in DC, as far as I can see.
    Its not hard to save for retirement.

    Cut expenses.

    The problem is that people want stuff and don't want to sacrifice anything. I cut out pretty much everything, including a wife, and find saving very easy.

    Its all about how much are you willing to give up to save for retirement.

  3. #23
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    It is lobama's economy that created a loss in net worth. (which INCLUDES savings).

    Bub by
    It's change, TNV. We wouldn't hold it back even if we could, which we can't. I remember when people used to discuss how moving from a manufacturing to a service economy would affect young workers. This change -- to e-commerce and robots and drones, etc. -- is more akin to moving from farming to the factory at the start of the Industrial Age.

    I think our government owes our young people to at least TRY to help them navigate these strange new economic waters.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    That's the nature of corporate responsibility nowadays. It's all about minimizing cost, maximizing profit, protecting senior leadership (and their extraordinary benefits) and to hell with the rank and file employees.

    Cheers,

    Bourne
    It is, but I am not sure we want to try and "shame" people like Bezos into "doing better". It probably wouldn't work, and our kids are going to have to compete against whoever is Bezos-ing over in China, India and Africa, etc.

    Seems to me, the better route is to embrace the new economy, with some restraints, and then try to find ways to help people live decently within it.

    Whether as "workers" or not.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    First, a brief introduction as to why I think this matters, which I hope you will read:

    E-commerce is about to overtake bricks and mortar retail in a massive way, IMO. This shift will alter the work lives of millions of Americans, most of whom will be extremely low-paid and have no hope of exerting any power in their relationship to their employer. The chief architect of this Brave New World -- which, to be fair, offers many exciting advances to consumers -- is Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, whose extraordinary skill at leaping forward has moved Amazon from the bookshelves to the living rooms of virtually every home in America, posing a real threat to the continued survival of the behemoth Walmarts and the like.

    So, it is worth noticing how Bezos views his employees, and to date, he appears to view them as livestock. Amazon has such a horrible reputation as to conditions imposed on its distribution center employees, it has been suggested the US Dept. of Labor needs to look into matters there. Employees are "chipped" with GPS devices at work, and every step they take -- including bathroom breaks -- is recorded. News reports suggest some have had to leave their jobs due to mental health issues because of the constant demand for faster work and intense supervision. Altogether, not a workplace built by a warm, cuddly humanitarian, by any means.

    Likewise, Amazon has been the subject of thousands of small business owner complaints as to its predatory pricing practices. The electronic platform allows it to offer virtually any commodity on earth for sale to its customers at no cost apart from the coding to its portal. If the customer interest is high enough, Amazon will demand the business sell through Amazon, at prices Amazon sets, or it will find a similar product elsewhere. In many, many cases, this costs the business its entire profit, driving it under. Bookstores were killed off in this manner by Amazon, but now clothing manufacturers, household goods makers, etc. -- virtually any business Amazon might source from -- are likewise feeling this pressure. The competition is thought to have been the death knell of Kmart, Sears, etc. as bricks and mortar stores, and is expected to do likewise to Walmarts.

    IOW, literally no business in retail in America has the market power now to push back against Amazon, and yet, there has to date been not one anti-trust case filed against that company by the FTC. That could be in part because there are gaps between existing anti-trust law (written more or less to address the problems of monopoly power in 19th century America) are not entirely adequate to fight a e-commerce business as horizontally and vertically integrated as Amazon is.

    And now this, FFS:

    Amazon Prime Air pilots to protest at shareholders meeting

    Anyone else think driving down skilled labor costs by 50 to 60% and refusing to offer any retirement benefits at all might not be a trend we want to see proliferate across America?

    Personally, I find this terrifying.

    Your thoughts?
    Why are brick and mortar stores about to be overtaken? You led with that comment, but why?

    We are developing technology that does things better, smarter, faster and cheaper. Should we instead try to resist that and demand that society continue to do things worse, dumber, slower, costlier?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    That's the nature of corporate responsibility nowadays. It's all about minimizing cost,
    When wasn't it? When have buyers of anything wanted to maximize cost and pay more for an equivalent thing? This isn't a "nowadays" thing. There is no "corporate responsibility" to satisfy entitlement-minded desires. They buy and sell, like everyone else, and they want to maximize money coming into their pockets and minimize money going out of their pockets. Who doesn't have that goal? Everyone has that goal.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why are brick and mortar stores about to be overtaken? You led with that comment, but why?

    We are developing technology that does things better, smarter, faster and cheaper. Should we instead try to resist that and demand that society continue to do things worse, dumber, slower, costlier?
    The Sears stores are all gone now, and KMarts are also expected to disappear, etc.

    Amazon's e-commerce model eliminates almost all property and labor costs, as well as the need for a massive managerial force.

    No stores means no shoplifting. No government relations in every town. No zoning issues. Etc.

    It's not 100% clear Bezos can shutter every grocery in the country, but many smart people think he will.
    Thanks from chaos

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The Sears stores are all gone now, and KMarts are also expected to disappear, etc.

    Amazon's e-commerce model eliminates almost all property and labor costs, as well as the need for a massive managerial force.

    No stores means no shoplifting. No government relations in every town. No zoning issues. Etc.

    It's not 100% clear Bezos can shutter every grocery in the country, but many smart people think he will.
    And so should we try to fight against this technological and economic progress? Pretend that smarter, cheaper, faster, more efficient ways of doing the same thing are not actually available to us when they really are?
    Thanks from Madeline

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    And so should we try to fight against this technological and economic progress? Pretend that smarter, cheaper, faster, more efficient ways of doing the same thing are not actually available to us when they really are?
    No, not at all. I think we should restrain Amazon's greed to some extent, yes, but more importantly, we need some futurists to help us make new government policies for the American 99%.

    It might be that government-sponsored art purchases, etc. should be offered. Or that we should just move directly to the guaranteed income model.

    People will literally not be able to get work, and we shouldn't just let them starve.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The Sears stores are all gone now, and KMarts are also expected to disappear, etc.

    Amazon's e-commerce model eliminates almost all property and labor costs, as well as the need for a massive managerial force.

    No stores means no shoplifting. No government relations in every town. No zoning issues. Etc.

    It's not 100% clear Bezos can shutter every grocery in the country, but many smart people think he will.
    Sears stores are not all gone.

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