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Thread: Trump Cannot Stop The Revolution!

  1. #11
    Senior Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    We are still in the early stages of the solar power revolution.

    The price of solar power has been PLUMMETING. At an exponential rate. And will continue to do so. The technology is somewhat similar to silicon computer chips, after all. We had Moore's Law in the computer chip industry, and they have the analogous Swanson Effect in photo-voltaics.

    Solar power already beats any fossil fuels on price in many parts of the world.

    In just a few years, there will be a MAD RUSH in the world to and towards solar power. Because it will be dirt-cheap.

    The long era of energy scarcity that began with the first oil price shock in 1973 will be over.

    Mr. Trump CANNOT stop that.

    He might want to. He might want to, very BADLY, and Vladimir Putin would CERTAINLY like to stop the solar energy revolution in its tracks. But they can't. It is inexorable.

    Trump might indeed be able to get Congress to SLASH all research funding for solar power.

    But so what? If so, that will simply cede leadership in this rapidly growing industry to China.

    I have no idea why America would want to do that. Perhaps the enemies of solar power who are posters here would care to explain why they want America to lose the solar power industry to China.

    And we should also ask them how many of America's OTHER high-tech industries they would be willing to surrender to China. The aerospace industry? The computer chip industry? The computer software industry? The pharmaceutical industry? The medical electronics industry? How many others?

    What is the source of the ANIMUS for the solar power industry?? I don't GET it!
    Lmao... you REALLY compressed the bs in this one.

    Saving this for when I have time for a full response.

  2. #12
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Its only been 50 years, maybe in another hundred and a few trillion invested, solar PV will be a feasible and economic energy source.
    Ever looked at the history of computers?

  3. #13
    Franken-Stein 2020 excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGuy View Post
    Steam cars, better than electric. Could power them with all the excess paper used in Wash DC.

    Wind power, from all the hot air in Washington, D.C.

  4. #14
    Franken-Stein 2020 excalibur's Avatar
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    BTW, China's capacity in solar is not the same as the output. The nameplate capacity from solar is fantasy 99+% of the time, the actual production is way beneath that, as the EU has well found out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Ever looked at the history of computers?
    Yep, they came out commercially about the same time as solar panels. I have computers in my home and office, but no solar panels on my roof, they are much too expensive.

  6. #16
    Polemicist Supremum Monk-Eye's Avatar
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    Aimless Economic Nationalism

    " Aimless Economic Nationalism "

    * Something Beyond Hotel Chains *

    Thanks for bringing this up .

    My representatives were phoned a few days ago to convey concerns that trump has a limited understanding for the american school of economics and planned economies .

    It seems trump understands that tariffs provide some assurance for remaining self reliant and for promoting domestic industry , although he has not applied them to alternative industry and he seems completely oblivious to those economic futures and the global competition to control those to be essential reigns .

    It does not seem trump has organized a group of economic advisers to focus on neomercantilism and planning the economy and appears to option laissez faire determinates for the future while promoting frumpy keynesian public works programs for infrastructure as some sort of grand scheme .

    How Far Should America Return To The National System ?

  7. #17
    Senior Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Sorry, I'll have to parse this too many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    1-We are still in the early stages of the solar power revolution.

    2-The price of solar power has been PLUMMETING. At an exponential rate. And will continue to do so. 3-The technology is somewhat similar to silicon computer chips, after all. We had Moore's Law in the computer chip industry, and they have the analogous Swanson Effect in photo-voltaics.

    4-Solar power already beats any fossil fuels on price in many parts of the world.

    5-In just a few years, there will be a MAD RUSH in the world to and towards solar power. Because it will be dirt-cheap.

    6-The long era of energy scarcity that began with the first oil price shock in 1973 will be over.

    7-Mr. Trump CANNOT stop that.

    8-He might want to. He might want to, very BADLY, and Vladimir Putin would CERTAINLY like to stop the solar energy revolution in its tracks. But they can't. It is inexorable.

    9-Trump might indeed be able to get Congress to SLASH all research funding for solar power.

    10-But so what? If so, that will simply cede leadership in this rapidly growing industry to China.

    11-I have no idea why America would want to do that. Perhaps the enemies of solar power who are posters here would care to explain why they want America to lose the solar power industry to China.

    12-And we should also ask them how many of America's OTHER high-tech industries they would be willing to surrender to China. The aerospace industry? The computer chip industry? The computer software industry? The pharmaceutical industry? The medical electronics industry? How many others?

    13-What is the source of the ANIMUS for the solar power industry?? I don't GET it!
    1- true.

    2- the cost of the panels, yes. The efficiency of the panels, not quite so much. It's not so much the money you put in that matter, it's what you get for that cost that matters. Unfortunately, it's still not where it needs to be for anything more than small scale (on your home) production. The grid rules in most city centres do not even allow solar power for anything more than load shedding, because if any power goes back into the grid, it can cause catastrophic failures.

    3- one of the bigger factors is the heat... There are lots of groups scrambling for better methods to squeeze the next little bit of juice, unfortunately, the same conditions that make for ideal energy production also creates more heat which hurts the efficiency... That said, this isn't wrong, the technology is improving at a steady pace.

    4- are you talking installed price? The cost for the panels themselves? Or do you mean the value produced by the panels is better than that produced by fossil fuels? These are three concepts that you seem to use interchangeably through are various attempts at is topic.

    5- this one gets a little convoluted, yes, you are right. There will be a rush to solar power, yes, there will be lower costs. The thing is, that's being artificial reduction in the price, because countries around the world are taking tax money, and since they can't really get away with squandering the WHOLE THING they are putting tax money into these companies so that the prices are lowered. After the rush is over, then people will continue to rely on fossil fuels.

    6- there are more proven and untapped reserves today, with 40 years of usage, then there were then. Not to mention directional drilling methods and fracking (which I'm not a fan of, but it's part of the lease agreement that when a site is complete that it be returned to a condition as though they were not there, among other elements)

    7- he's the only one that backed out of the agreement because it was a screw job on your country... I'm actually pretty pissed that Trudeau is signing on. Do you just buy EVERYTIME someone gives you a pitch? Ever heard the saying "read the fine print"? Nah.

    8- yes, the cult has grown in power even though their influence is dwindling. That probably won't make sense to you, but it does to my red pilled peers.

    9- this one would actually be bad, this is a technology worth investing in, but it really is still at best 10-15 years away at the rate before it gets to where it needs to be, on both fronts, batteries, panels, transformers are like 90+% by design, inverters are similar... The tech that is really needed is superconductors operating at ambient temperatures... That would transform society radically.

    10- China builds like 3 coal power plants a week, and they don't even have to start with the efficiency standards for another 10 years... So, if they are also investing in solar, they at least have backup power. The rich like China because if their people get uppity they just gun them down and nobody talks about it... There are billions, so the government considers a few hundred dead a rounding error. Not exactly the society I want to look up to...

    11- because solar power plants, generally speaking, are only offering a positive return on investment because of subsidies. The technology is good and promising, it's just not where it needs to be for grid scale production beyond some geographical exceptions that have been tapped.

    12- you do know that trump is making contracts for billion dollar factories in the us, by getting rid of the bureaucracy, it becomes competitive with China, and then some entrepreneurs can take it from there, that's free market.

    13- it's not animus, it's just the technology is just not quite where it needs to be before it's worth investing on large grid scale projects. If you want to see what I'm talking about look into the results of "SOLAR FREAKIN' ROADWAY!!!".

    Believe me, I want the tech to be better, but there is a reason why at grid scale solar and wind power gets placed in "supplemental" category, where the contribution to the grid is only around the 15-20% of consumption. I've run through the numbers, the biggest issues are that the best locations... People don't live there.
    Thanks from webrockk and OlGuy

  8. #18
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Its only been 50 years, maybe in another hundred and a few trillion invested, solar PV will be a feasible and economic energy source.
    Hilariously uninformed, as per usual.

  9. #19
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Ever looked at the history of computers?
    No. No, I don't think he has.

    In fact, all of the AGW deniers think there has been ZERO progress in computers since the 1970's.

  10. #20
    Senior Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    No. No, I don't think he has.

    In fact, all of the AGW deniers think there has been ZERO progress in computers since the 1970's.
    Really? Really?!

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