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Thread: Trump Cannot Stop The Revolution!

  1. #41
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Don't have time today to respond to all these points, but.......it is NOT going to take 10 or 15 years for a mad rush to solar power to take place. Watch, and learn. Solar power is going to revolutionize the world economy within the next FIVE years. That's how fast the price is dropping. Solar jobs are growing in America at a rate that is 17 times faster (!!) than the overall growth rate of the American economy. One must wonder what it is about that statistic that you don't quite 'get'. And yes, I am primarily talking about the price of the panels. Does the phrase 'economies of scale' mean anything to you? Anything at ALL?!??
    The fact that it's irrelevant... if someone charges you 20$ for a turd, that's not a good deal. If the person comes back and says that it's now 5$ for the same turd, the price might be cheaper but it doesn't make a better deal.

    I'm sorry to simplify to that extent, but you seem so heart set that the only reason that there are not solar panels everywhere to replace fossil fuels is the cost per panel...

    It's going to take more than price to place solar panel outside the category of "supplemental" power, even IF the installed solar capacity could replace coal and oil. I've tried to explain the technical limitations of the technology several times, and you are just focused on the dollar amount per panel.

    Which is good, the price going down means more individuals will become less dependant on the grid, but it's the efficiency of the panels that needs to increase, and significantly, before grid scale solar becomes viable (beyond the geographical exceptions).

  2. #42
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    Musk is pretty excited about this

    Tesla Solar Roof could be Elon Musk's best product - Business Insider

    I can't think of one single source of electricity generation that functions to meet all our needs, why do you expect solar to do what nothing else does?
    Thanks from BigLeRoy

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Don't have time today to respond to all these points, but.......it is NOT going to take 10 or 15 years for a mad rush to solar power to take place. Watch, and learn. Solar power is going to revolutionize the world economy within the next FIVE years. That's how fast the price is dropping. Solar jobs are growing in America at a rate that is 17 times faster (!!) than the overall growth rate of the American economy. One must wonder what it is about that statistic that you don't quite 'get'. And yes, I am primarily talking about the price of the panels. Does the phrase 'economies of scale' mean anything to you? Anything at ALL?!??
    It's all artificial demand created by government mandates. Value and technology aren't driving the demand, only compliance.
    Thanks from bmanmcfly

  4. #44
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    It's all artificial demand created by government mandates. Value and technology aren't driving the demand, only compliance.
    No. Wrongo. Fossil fuels are MUCH more heavily subsidized than solar and wind energy. You've had this explained to you UMPTEEN times by now. Are you simply obtuse?

  5. #45
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    The fact that it's irrelevant... if someone charges you 20$ for a turd, that's not a good deal. If the person comes back and says that it's now 5$ for the same turd, the price might be cheaper but it doesn't make a better deal.

    I'm sorry to simplify to that extent, but you seem so heart set that the only reason that there are not solar panels everywhere to replace fossil fuels is the cost per panel...

    It's going to take more than price to place solar panel outside the category of "supplemental" power, even IF the installed solar capacity could replace coal and oil. I've tried to explain the technical limitations of the technology several times, and you are just focused on the dollar amount per panel.

    Which is good, the price going down means more individuals will become less dependant on the grid, but it's the efficiency of the panels that needs to increase, and significantly, before grid scale solar becomes viable (beyond the geographical exceptions).
    You're seriously likening solar energy to a turd. And you expect to be taken seriously?!??

    I live less than two miles from a solar farm with more than 2000 solar panels. Colorado, you know, gets PLENTY of sunshine, I think more than 300 days a year.

    PVREA Members Invest in Solar Energy

    Poudre Valley REA in a partnership with Clean Energy Collective (CEC) has provided an opportunity for members to own panels in the community solar farms.

    The first solar farm was completed in August 2012 and was the first community solar farm in Northern Colorado. It encompasses 494 solar panels generating 203,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity yearly and is located at PVREA's headquarters. The second farm went live in January 2015 and is located in Fort Collins. The second community solar farm is four times larger with over 2,000 solar panels and generates 1.1 million kWh per year.

    The community solar concept allows all consumers, even renters to participate in renewable energy without putting solar panels on their roof. Since CEC performs all of the maintenance and provides a warranty, consumers don’t have to worry about maintenance or repair. And, the environmental impact over the life of the array is equal to taking 17,000,000 automobile miles off the road.

    Both arrays are 100% sold out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    No. Wrongo. Fossil fuels are MUCH more heavily subsidized than solar and wind energy. You've had this explained to you UMPTEEN times by now. Are you simply obtuse?
    Not really, you cite some ridiculous paper that claims that the cash that oil companies spend on exploration and drilling are subsidies because oil companies depreciate them for tax purposes. It further claimed that oil companies are subsidized because they don't have to pay a carbon tax.

    The government didn't give Jay Leno $10k for buying any of his gasoline burning Ferraris, only for his Teslas.
    Thanks from bmanmcfly

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    You're seriously likening solar energy to a turd. And you expect to be taken seriously?!??

    I live less than two miles from a solar farm with more than 2000 solar panels. Colorado, you know, gets PLENTY of sunshine, I think more than 300 days a year.

    PVREA Members Invest in Solar Energy

    Poudre Valley REA in a partnership with Clean Energy Collective (CEC) has provided an opportunity for members to own panels in the community solar farms.

    The first solar farm was completed in August 2012 and was the first community solar farm in Northern Colorado. It encompasses 494 solar panels generating 203,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity yearly and is located at PVREA's headquarters. The second farm went live in January 2015 and is located in Fort Collins. The second community solar farm is four times larger with over 2,000 solar panels and generates 1.1 million kWh per year.

    The community solar concept allows all consumers, even renters to participate in renewable energy without putting solar panels on their roof. Since CEC performs all of the maintenance and provides a warranty, consumers don’t have to worry about maintenance or repair. And, the environmental impact over the life of the array is equal to taking 17,000,000 automobile miles off the road.

    Both arrays are 100% sold out.
    What did those solar projects cost? What was the IRR considering that there was adequate capacity with existing natural gas fired generation?
    Last edited by Libertine; 14th June 2017 at 01:14 PM.

  8. #48
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    The fact that it's irrelevant... if someone charges you 20$ for a turd, that's not a good deal. If the person comes back and says that it's now 5$ for the same turd, the price might be cheaper but it doesn't make a better deal.

    I'm sorry to simplify to that extent, but you seem so heart set that the only reason that there are not solar panels everywhere to replace fossil fuels is the cost per panel...

    It's going to take more than price to place solar panel outside the category of "supplemental" power, even IF the installed solar capacity could replace coal and oil. I've tried to explain the technical limitations of the technology several times, and you are just focused on the dollar amount per panel.

    Which is good, the price going down means more individuals will become less dependant on the grid, but it's the efficiency of the panels that needs to increase, and significantly, before grid scale solar becomes viable (beyond the geographical exceptions).
    Electricity is now a turd.
    North Korea is the most turd free nation on Earth.
    Thanks from RNG and BigLeRoy

  9. #49
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    You're seriously likening solar energy to a turd. And you expect to be taken seriously?!??

    I live less than two miles from a solar farm with more than 2000 solar panels. Colorado, you know, gets PLENTY of sunshine, I think more than 300 days a year.

    PVREA Members Invest in Solar Energy

    Poudre Valley REA in a partnership with Clean Energy Collective (CEC) has provided an opportunity for members to own panels in the community solar farms.

    The first solar farm was completed in August 2012 and was the first community solar farm in Northern Colorado. It encompasses 494 solar panels generating 203,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity yearly and is located at PVREA's headquarters. The second farm went live in January 2015 and is located in Fort Collins. The second community solar farm is four times larger with over 2,000 solar panels and generates 1.1 million kWh per year.

    The community solar concept allows all consumers, even renters to participate in renewable energy without putting solar panels on their roof. Since CEC performs all of the maintenance and provides a warranty, consumers donít have to worry about maintenance or repair. And, the environmental impact over the life of the array is equal to taking 17,000,000 automobile miles off the road.

    Both arrays are 100% sold out.
    First, I find it hilarious that I can pinpoint the exact WORD where you stopped reading and decided to respond.

    Second, if you had read even the line following the word where you stopped you would have realized that I addressed the oversimplification.

    Third, this was a few paragraphs after you stopped reading, but thanks for highlighting one of those "geographical exceptions" that was referred.

  10. #50
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Not really, you cite some ridiculous paper that claims that the cash that oil companies spend on exploration and drilling are subsidies because oil companies depreciate them for tax purposes. It further claimed that oil companies are subsidized because they don't have to pay a carbon tax.

    The government didn't give Jay Leno $10k for buying any of his gasoline burning Ferraris, only for his Teslas.
    You mean he was gaming the numbers to get the desired result... nooo. *shocked*

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