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Thread: Trump Cannot Stop The Revolution!

  1. #51
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    I don't really know what that means.

    The utilities where I live are all co-ops. The people who lived here banded together and built their own utility companies.
    What was the payout on the coop's project? And what about on the infrastructure that the coop ties into?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    What was the payout on the coop's project? And what about on the infrastructure that the coop ties into?
    The payback was huge, the communications and electric infrastructure jump started an economic boon and improved the quality of life for millions.

    The infrastructure they tie to is a combination of Corps of Engineer projects and projects from a self-funding independent GSE.

  3. #53
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    Not really, you cite some ridiculous paper that claims that the cash that oil companies spend on exploration and drilling are subsidies because oil companies depreciate them for tax purposes. It further claimed that oil companies are subsidized because they don't have to pay a carbon tax.

    The government didn't give Jay Leno $10k for buying any of his gasoline burning Ferraris, only for his Teslas.
    No, you wildly uninformed person, I am citing the International Energy Agency, which has documented that subsidies for fossil fuels totaled a WHOPPING 6.5% of global GDP in the very recent year 2015.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

    The people who work for the International Energy Agency are experts. And you are not.

    Scornfully yours,

    BigLeRoy.

  4. #54
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    You mean he was gaming the numbers to get the desired result... nooo. *shocked*
    Just yet another ignoramus who's been shown these numbers MANY times. A very forgetful ignoramus on top of it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
    Thanks from bmanmcfly

  5. #55
    Senior Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Just yet another ignoramus who's been shown these numbers MANY times. A very forgetful ignoramus on top of it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
    Yup. And I'll let the genius in the room figure out how the numbers are gamed... see you in a month or 2. Assuming said genius even tries to figure it out.

  6. #56
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    Yup. And I'll let the genius in the room figure out how the numbers are gamed... see you in a month or 2. Assuming said genius even tries to figure it out.
    Garsh, yer so much smarterer than alla them smartpy-pants scientest fellers at this so-called INternational Energy Agency! You mujst be the smarterest person in yer hole danged fambly!!
    Thanks from Blues63

  7. #57
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
    The payback was huge, the communications and electric infrastructure jump started an economic boon and improved the quality of life for millions.

    The infrastructure they tie to is a combination of Corps of Engineer projects and projects from a self-funding independent GSE.
    A good righty like you using quality of life as an argument in a discussion of monetary payout? The world spins faster.

  8. #58
    Senior Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    Garsh, yer so much smarterer than alla them smartpy-pants scientest fellers at this so-called INternational Energy Agency! You mujst be the smarterest person in yer hole danged fambly!!
    I never said I was... I was just pointing out that you're a liar. It's OK, we both knew that already.

    Or, if you object to being called a liar, if you prefer we can call it pointing out how you are not smart enough to be commenting on the subject.

    Even your link, which you obviously only read to get the number you wanted... had you continued, you would have come to realize that the number you quoted had a bunch of caveats attached. That wasn't even the issue I noticed earlier, the one that will take you at full dedicated weeks/months of brainpower to figure it out, assuming you have the honesty to look (we both know you dont).

    Come on smart guy, show us how you lied.

  9. #59
    Radical Centrist BigLeRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    I never said I was... I was just pointing out that you're a liar. It's OK, we both knew that already.

    Or, if you object to being called a liar, if you prefer we can call it pointing out how you are not smart enough to be commenting on the subject.

    Even your link, which you obviously only read to get the number you wanted... had you continued, you would have come to realize that the number you quoted had a bunch of caveats attached. That wasn't even the issue I noticed earlier, the one that will take you at full dedicated weeks/months of brainpower to figure it out, assuming you have the honesty to look (we both know you dont).

    Come on smart guy, show us how you lied.
    This, from my link in post #54, happens to be entirely correct:

    A 2016 study estimated that global fossil fuel subsidies were $5.3 trillion in 2015, which represents 6.5% of global GDP.[3] The study found that "China was the biggest subsidizer in 2013 ($1.8 trillion), followed by the United States ($0.6 trillion), and Russia, the European Union, and India (each with about $0.3 trillion)."[3] The authors estimated that the elimination of "subsidies would have reduced global carbon emissions in 2013 by 21% and fossil fuel air pollution deaths 55%, while raising revenue of 4%, and social welfare by 2.2%, of global GDP."[3] According to the International Energy Agency, the elimination of fossil fuel subsidies worldwide would be the one of the most effective ways of reducing greenhouse gases and battling global warming.[4] In May 2016, the G7 nations set for the first time a deadline for ending most fossil fuel subsidies; saying government support for coal, oil and gas should end by 2025.[13]

    According to the OECD, subsidies supporting fossil fuels, particularly coal and oil, represent greater threats to the environment than subsidies to renewable energy. Subsidies to nuclear power contribute to unique environmental and safety issues, related mostly to the risk of high-level environmental damage, although nuclear power contributes positively to the environment in the areas of air pollution and climate change.[14] According to Fatih Birol, Chief Economist at the International Energy Agency without a phasing out of fossil fuel subsidies, countries will not reach their climate targets.[15]

    A 2010 study by Global Subsidies Initiative compared global relative subsidies of different energy sources. Results show that fossil fuels receive 0.8 US cents per kWh of energy they produce (although it should be noted that the estimate of fossil fuel subsidies applies only to consumer subsidies and only within non-OECD countries), nuclear energy receives 1.7 cents / kWh, renewable energy (excluding hydroelectricity) receives 5.0 cents / kWh and bio-fuels receive 5.1 cents / kWh in subsidies.[16]

    In 2011, IEA chief economist Faith Birol said the current $409 billion equivalent of fossil fuel subsidies are encouraging a wasteful use of energy, and that the cuts in subsidies is the biggest policy item that would help renewable energies get more market share and reduce CO2 emissions.[17]

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeRoy View Post
    This, from my link in post #54, happens to be entirely correct:

    A 2016 study estimated that global fossil fuel subsidies were $5.3 trillion in 2015, which represents 6.5% of global GDP.[3] The study found that "China was the biggest subsidizer in 2013 ($1.8 trillion), followed by the United States ($0.6 trillion), and Russia, the European Union, and India (each with about $0.3 trillion)."[3] The authors estimated that the elimination of "subsidies would have reduced global carbon emissions in 2013 by 21% and fossil fuel air pollution deaths 55%, while raising revenue of 4%, and social welfare by 2.2%, of global GDP."[3] According to the International Energy Agency, the elimination of fossil fuel subsidies worldwide would be the one of the most effective ways of reducing greenhouse gases and battling global warming.[4] In May 2016, the G7 nations set for the first time a deadline for ending most fossil fuel subsidies; saying government support for coal, oil and gas should end by 2025.[13]

    According to the OECD, subsidies supporting fossil fuels, particularly coal and oil, represent greater threats to the environment than subsidies to renewable energy. Subsidies to nuclear power contribute to unique environmental and safety issues, related mostly to the risk of high-level environmental damage, although nuclear power contributes positively to the environment in the areas of air pollution and climate change.[14] According to Fatih Birol, Chief Economist at the International Energy Agency without a phasing out of fossil fuel subsidies, countries will not reach their climate targets.[15]

    A 2010 study by Global Subsidies Initiative compared global relative subsidies of different energy sources. Results show that fossil fuels receive 0.8 US cents per kWh of energy they produce (although it should be noted that the estimate of fossil fuel subsidies applies only to consumer subsidies and only within non-OECD countries), nuclear energy receives 1.7 cents / kWh, renewable energy (excluding hydroelectricity) receives 5.0 cents / kWh and bio-fuels receive 5.1 cents / kWh in subsidies.[16]

    In 2011, IEA chief economist Faith Birol said the current $409 billion equivalent of fossil fuel subsidies are encouraging a wasteful use of energy, and that the cuts in subsidies is the biggest policy item that would help renewable energies get more market share and reduce CO2 emissions.[17]
    I love it... You are proud that you added the rest that un makes your point?

    See how it takes 0.8 cents of subsidies to maintain oil prices, honestly, other than the risks of finding nothing, oil is profitable without (generally speaking)... It takes 5.1cents per kWh to make solar profitable.

    What's the cost for grid power? 8-12cents per kWh?

    Which is also outside confirmation that I told you before how, based on my calculations and with geographical exceptions, it's roughly a doubling of efficiency at the same cost is needed before most solar projects cross into becoming viably profitable.

    However, still need something else to deal with night time.

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